[50NL] Raise "to define my hand" or just call down?

[M.Goodcat]

IMO, flop is a raise 5$
turn is a value bet
and if we get to the river with this chasing vilain, it is a fold lol.
He has a suited AK or AQ, not putting him on over pair, he is way behind on the flop and on the turn.
On this kind of hand and on many others obviously, there is guy who is favorite and an underdog, make him understand that his c-bet is S*** and that his AK no good.

[bozzer]

i think this looks fine BvB, but every time it goes wrong i feel like the worlds worst player cos its so passive.

the problem is if he bets a little bit bigger on every street, then you're in trouble.

[ciro bonano]

[ QUOTE ]
But I think I'm raising the turn. You'll get more value out of your hand this way versus
1) other J’s
2) you'll put pressure on someone with a draw if they've picked one up
3) and you're defining your hand versus a potentially bigger hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
1) If I raise small (minraise) that's true; if I raise bigger they would just fold.
2) There's no serious draw besides A:hearts:K:hearts: and I need to raise quite a bit to get him to fold. He can have a random Q or K but I think I get more value out of bluffs then the chance of him spiking his 3-outer. How great would it be if he has AK and hits an ace?
3) What is exactly the $ value of defining my hand? If he 3bets I can fold because I know I have the worst hand? If he fold I knew I had the best hand. Both cases are not good for me. For exactly the same amount I put in to raise the turn I can see a showdown! If he calls and leads the river I still don't know what he has so it's not that defined.

[ciro bonano]

[ QUOTE ]
i think this looks fine BvB, but every time it goes wrong i feel like the worlds worst player cos its so passive.

[/ QUOTE ]
I never know if _other_ players understand it's BvB so maybe they aren't opening up their range. If villain was 2p2 then it's "zomg TPTK=monster BvB" but he's an unknown.

I also have a hard time stoving a range that bets the river where I have the required ~30% equity against, but my main concern is the flop/turn anyway.

[comfortably_numb]

Due to his preflop raise (without reads) and being OOP after the flop I would assume a tight range, AQ, AK, QQ+
His flop bet could be c-bet (AQ and AK) or value already QQ+.
On his turn bet you must somehow define your hand; I would put in a raise of 6$.
If he shoves I'd fold. If he calls and bets the river I'd fold, too.
Maybe that's too tight, but given NL50 it's much more straight forward action than big moves...
I would not give him credit 3-barelling AQ or AK here, but difficult to say without any read. I lean towards abc-poker then...

[tomonbass]

Anyone like a raise flop with the plan to check/check a safe turn....

As it is raise flop and if called you need to overbet that turn boards getting drawy and your probably ahead I like to take the pot down here in these situations...

[kokiri]

I probably raise the turn here, expecting to get some value from worse hands, which I would also then expect to check to me on the river. If called and bet into on the river for size, I think I would probably fold.

TBH, if villain has a better hand and we get away with under 40BB in a TPTK vs 2P/set situation, I don't have a problem.

[members_only]

OP, there's nothing very much for other players to 'understand' about a bvb situation: if it gets folded round to someone on the small blind, it's fairly easy for them to see that there's only the big blind left, that most of the time he won't have a hand, and so they should try to steal with a wider range than from other positions. They might not put it in those terms, but it's hardly a massive intuitive leap. Consequently, bvb hands will generally be won by weaker hands than eg if someone raises it utg and gets two callers.

There are plenty of situations where you might legitimately wonder whether an opponent 'understands' such and such but this is quite a 'natural' one. Imo

[members_only]

[ QUOTE ]
Due to his preflop raise (without reads) and being OOP after the flop I would assume a tight range, AQ, AK, QQ+


[/ QUOTE ]

No way

[Fiksdal]

3bet preflop

flop could either be a call or a small value raise, but I think I prefer a call on this very dry board so villain can keep thinking his pocket pair or whatever might be good.