PokerTracker: The Next Generation (NEW SOFTWARE DISCUSSION)

[NorthView]

Those asking for SQL Server 2005 Express to be the back end should take note of this from the MS website:

"With a database size limit of 4 gigabytes (GB) and support for one CPU and up to 1 GB of RAM, SQL Server 2005 Express Edition is suitable for application embedding or lightweight application development."

[Shoe Lace]

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As for existing PT + PA Hud users, the new software will definitely be available to them at a discount.

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I'm not sure if people will be willing to pay any amount if the software is just a face lift with minor enhancements.

Example:
- Not using MS Access as a DB in PT <-- this is already possible
- Speed issues <-- this isn't an issue for everyone
- 3bet/etc <-- this is to be expected as regular feature enhancements, in some cases these already exist as free alternate add-ons

My gripe is I purchased PT+HUD less than a month ago. I don't mind that the software (especially PT) looks like it was made in 1995 because it does its job well.

I run PT+HUD because it provides me with useful information on the players I sit down at a table with in addition to allow me to track my progress and improve my game. I do not care about 32 bit icons, flat toolbars, and an improved datagrid control.

The application would have to be groundbreaking to get another penny from me. Not just a few new features and a fancy UI.

Let's face it. I imagine most people open up PT, start the auto-importer and let it run while they play. Does it really matter what the app looks like graphically?

In the end, after a session it still doesn't really matter. The data is provided to you in an easy to navigate fashion.

TBH the users shouldn't have to suffer due to improper code management. If the core of the app needs to be re-written, and you think a new UI is in order this should be a standard new version. Not a separate product which needs to be re-sold.

Perhaps you guys should go all out and create this new version. Offer it as a standard new version (with the current feature set of PT+HUD + misc features). Then using the new code infrastructure, offer add-ons that perform groundbreaking features for an added fee.

Similar to PAHUD. People buy this because it offers an extremely useful feature to PT.

[sputnik365]

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A generic import which,if necessary, adds date and an incrementing time based on date of creation of file.

I am thinking specifically of cakepoker and DGN skins but there must be other small and unsupported sites that offer good value from time to time

Good luck with this.

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I'm not familiar with these sites. Do the hand histories not include any date information?

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cakepoker doesn't at any rate hence "adds date and an incrementing time based on date of creation of file"
Thanks

[APerfect10]

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I'm not sure if people will be willing to pay any amount if the software is just a face lift with minor enhancements.

Example:
- Not using MS Access as a DB in PT <-- this is already possible
- Speed issues <-- this isn't an issue for everyone
- 3bet/etc <-- this is to be expected as regular feature enhancements, in some cases these already exist as free alternate add-ons

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I assume that these enhancements would be the base for the next generation of PT; however, would not be limited to that. These might be the first steps but certainly not the last. Regardless, IMHO, even these improvements you listed would be well worth an upgrade fee. That is certainly up to the end-user though.

[Shoe Lace]

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I assume that these enhancements would be the base for the next generation of PT; however, would not be limited to that. These might be the first steps but certainly not the last. Regardless, IMHO, even these improvements you listed would be well worth an upgrade fee. That is certainly up to the end-user though.

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I completely agree, I'm sure there will be other things. That is the problem though. We shouldn't be forced into features when alternates exist for free.

A 3betting field is not worth it to me alone. All this requires is adding a "PF_3bet" field to a table in the database then attachment a small calculation to it.

I wouldn't be surprised if PT:TNG had a type of grapher built into it too. Sure, that's neat, but Poker Grapher has been doing this for years and it's working today.

Sometimes as a developer you just have to bite the bullet and not try to squeeze profits when you have an urge to re-design your app from the ground up.

When an app needs to be redesigned from the ground up, this means the developer was at fault. He underestimated the market of the app in addition to user requests/demands when initially coding the app.

It doesn't mean the developer is an idiot though. If anything it shows the developer isn't an idiot. He/They were able to provide users what they want with this inferior code structure.

Now, fast forward a couple years and it's getting to be a huge mess. He/They decide to rewrite it, and now we have to pay for a new package but we (the end user) see nothing but prettier icons and features that already exist.

I could be way off here, and they do indeed have crazy things up their sleeves that will make the upgrade fee well worth it, but I'll have to see it to believe it. As a developer and someone who has followed many software packages I'm pretty skeptical when a developer starts saying "zomg new design, new features, ...oh yeah you will have to repurchase the app".

[oracle3001]

PokerOffice did exactly as PT/PAHUD are suggesting very succesfully.

They completely overhauled their product and it was a huge improvement from PO1. Only mistake they made was it was still all java based and slow as hell when you got lots of tables open and a large db.

I suggested this exact idea on the PT forum probably 6 months ago, and I think it is the only way to go. Many serious players are asking for improvements, but they require serious amounts of work / complete redesign of the product, and I for one are more than happy pay for this work to be completed.

[garvin]

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I for one are more than happy pay for this work to be completed.

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Agree.

Besides the obvious things (import speed etc) I think this is a great opportunity to make the application more flexible both for future development and for users.

With that I am thinking of a metadata-based scheme in XML that makes adding new sites and changes in site layout or HH formats more easier to manage in the future (no hard-coding).

I am also thinking of something like a simple script/report language so that every user could make some individual reports or data (also visible in HUD). That would also mean that the DB had to be fully documented and available.

And for those of us cursed with programming knowledge, an programming-language-independent API where you could retrieve the basic information (who-is-at-the-table & statistics through the simple scripting, nothing that can be used for bot writing or anything unfair). This could be used both for individuals and for creating free or commercial third-party add-ons.

As previously stated, unless you have done it yourself few people understand the work necessary for support and maintenance. So all the kudos to PT + PAHUD guys for past achievements, hope you can outperform yourself with this version.

[tautomer]

Need a bit more for headsup players. Fold blinds to steal is always 0% for headsup, I'd like to know how often I'm folding to preflop raises or 3 bets. Extremely important stat. Same with cold call pf % in the position stats tab. Maybe the blind steal stat can be redefined for 1 on 1 games.

Make things more interactive. Let us decide which columns we want to see in each tab and how we want them sorted and we should be able to save those settings.

Maybe 4 more auto rating icons should be added for more flexibility. This is especially true for headsup play.

I'd like the ability to enter in bonus/rakeback numbers as well, treat it as a separate stake or something.

Please don't include any real time hand range calcs and all that other bot-type crap. People need to learn how to pay attention and play poker. Sites would likely ban the software anyway.

That's all I can think of right now, great products guys, keep up the good work!

[Stake Monster]

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on a somewhat serious sidenote, i think PT is currently on the edge of what poker sites should allow us to use while playing.

once it (or the RVG's utility) crosses the line it appears to soon be crossing, poker will take another large step towards unprofitability, IMO.

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[Relvin]

Definitly the two main things I will want to see in the product are improved speed importing and viewing ring game stats (You already said you will be fixing this) and please make the hand replayer as robust and good as possible! I would love if it could overlay our exact pokerace hud layout stats on the replayer for each player as they were when the hands was played (x number of hands of data for that person during that hand, then x+1 hands on next hand reviewed plus all other stats update). If this can not be done then it would still be great if the current hands for the player could be shown atleast overlayed (would not be too bad or far off if hands were reviewed same day, but could still be misleading if I didnt have much hand data on guy when I made play)

sorry I didnt word that so well but I am sure you get the idea.