KKxx one pair calldown

crashwhips · #1 10-05-2007, 06:05 PM

Once again I think I might have spewed. Should I be leading turn here and if so I have to pitch it if he raises right? I didn't lead because I was wary of 67 and didn't want to be raised off what was possibly the best hand and/or the best draw. I decided to call on the turn because my hand could be good against a TJ straight draw/flush draw and if not I have the flush outs. On the river I thought missed draws were a big part of his range so I decided to call down. Was this horribly played?

Opp is unknown

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($36.85)
CO ($97.30)
Button ($108.95)
SB ($86.90)
BB ($99.55)
Hero ($204.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, CO calls $3.50, 2 folds, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($11) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $8, CO calls $8, BB folds.

Turn: ($27) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $25.7, Hero calls $25.70.

River: ($78.40) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $60.1 (All-In), Hero calls $60.10.

Final Pot: $198.60

Ribbo · #2 10-05-2007, 06:11 PM

Check raise the turn, that will make your river decision easier.

sqwisssssss · #3 10-06-2007, 01:43 AM

fold pre flop

as played, i dont see how you have any choice but to call.

you allowed villan to take control of hand without really knowing the strength of his hand.

villan has no choice either but to push because you didnt give him any information of the strength of your hand. as a matter of fact, you showed him weakness on the turn and he can now be betting with a better hand or draw.

its 50/50 with you getting odds on the river for a coinflip that you created. you have no information other than the villan took over on the turn. the only thing he can have is nut straight or 2 pair or busted draws.

call.......you left yourself no choice.

chucky · #4 10-06-2007, 02:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre flop

as played, i dont see how you have any choice but to call.

you allowed villan to take control of hand without really knowing the strength of his hand.

villan has no choice either but to push because you didnt give him any information of the strength of your hand. as a matter of fact, you showed him weakness on the turn and he can now be betting with a better hand or draw.

its 50/50 with you getting odds on the river for a coinflip that you created. you have no information other than the villan took over on the turn. the only thing he can have is nut straight or 2 pair or busted draws.

call.......you left yourself no choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good god man. who folds KKss preflop?

sqwisssssss · #5 10-06-2007, 03:14 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold pre flop

as played, i dont see how you have any choice but to call.

you allowed villan to take control of hand without really knowing the strength of his hand.

villan has no choice either but to push because you didnt give him any information of the strength of your hand. as a matter of fact, you showed him weakness on the turn and he can now be betting with a better hand or draw.

its 50/50 with you getting odds on the river for a coinflip that you created. you have no information other than the villan took over on the turn. the only thing he can have is nut straight or 2 pair or busted draws.

call.......you left yourself no choice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good god man. who folds KKss preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]

when its king of diamonds, seven of diamonds, king of clubs and 4 of spades and i'm utg and i know i'm going to get multiple callers.

this hand doesnt play well multi way utg in my opinion. if i'm giving up some ev then so be it, but i save a lot of headaches.

i'm not sure but i would be surprised if this hand is +ev utg in the long run in multi way pots.

chucky · #6 10-06-2007, 03:30 AM

Do you fold unsuited aces preflop from utg in a 6-max? If you are worried about playing this hand for large pots OOP then you limp it so you can get away when you don't hit a set.

Big Dave D · #7 10-06-2007, 03:40 AM

I haven't ran any sims, but I would suspect you are wrong on every count. KK is simply one of the best pairs to have and in some ways is less problematic than AA. Passing this hand is a big leak.

gl

bdd

sqwisssssss · #8 10-06-2007, 04:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I haven't ran any sims, but I would suspect you are wrong on every count. KK is simply one of the best pairs to have and in some ways is less problematic than AA. Passing this hand is a big leak.

gl

bdd

[/ QUOTE ]

no need to run any sims,i dont doubt that i'm wrong but i dont doubt that these type of hands also lead to problematic situations.

in the higher limits its one thing but in the smaller limits, players make such god awful mistakes that i wait for better hands in those spots.......and get paid off.

crashwhips · #9 10-06-2007, 09:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check raise the turn, that will make your river decision easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, good advice I should have just done this.

What if the turn was a 7, T, J, or Q instead of the 5 though, making the straight much more likely? What should be my line then? Surely a c/r would be spew? Bet pot/fold and check/fold are both good options in that case right?

Hattifnatt · #10 10-06-2007, 09:09 PM

I prefer limping this preflop, flop bet is ok even though checking woulda been ok as well, just c/f fold turn as played.