3/6 reraise with 7s 4s

[Xhad]

[ QUOTE ]
If you honestly think position in a limit game doesn't matter than you should play backgammon or something instead of poker

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't what James said. Doing this otb isn't good, it's just slightly less bad than doing it UTG.

[KitCloudkicker]

once in a while, a non-traditional 3 bet preflop such that you can heads up in position vs a weak passive player is ok.

i dont see that as being the case here.

[Budget Boy]

I wouldn't give him too hard of a time about it. I have friends that make all kinds of weird donkey plays like this, and I have given up trying to coach or debate them or anything. I've come to realize that my friends have different goals than me, and being a winning small stakes LHE player just isn't important to them. I would just say "yeah that was a really nice pot" or something like that, there is no way your friend is going to win at poker playing like that so he might as well have fun. Also lol at "debating" this hand, where is the argument?! Calling cold with 74, then reraising!, then capping! It's ridiculous, there is no argument, its indefensible.

[Scarmiglio]

Yep. This is awful. What you don't see is the 50 other times your friend tries the same play and loses. He may have won $100 this time, but he's giving away $200 in $3 increments over time with these hands. People like your friend lose far more than they win regardless of what they say. If they actually kept track of their wins and losses, they would know it too.

[jesse8888]

Don't ever encourage your friend to keep track of his wins and losses though. Just sit on his left, as previously mentioned.

[BeerMe]

I am player of said hand pipedown speaks of. We disagree on several facts (i.e. - hand was 7s-5s, not 7-4, I raised from EP and then capped after having eight callers and 1 raiser preflop).

In this particular 3/6 limit game, I already have an "image" there of being both really aggressive and really lucky. The table conditions are typically loose-passive preflop and flop, and semi loose-aggressive on the turn and river. From my experiences there, because I'm very aggressive (raise with roughly my best 30% and worst 30% of playable hands), I tend to get several callers when I raise from EP. However, I tend to get several folds when I am in late position, as these players fear a raise preflop from me in LP, and thus move with a higher standard preflop when I'm yet to act. For this reason, I often raise EP to build pots, and adjust accordingly from the flop on.

The hand played out as follows (11 handed):

UTG folds, raise by me, 8 callers, BB 3 bets, I cap and all call. Flop comes 7-7-3... but really, the flop is irrelivant.

What is relivant is that I entered that pot raising with the intention of building a pot, figuring that worst case scenario, I'm several handed and if anyone is to cap it would be exactly me. However, should a cap come before it makes it to me I'd likely fold (which, for the record, if I were playing against me, I'd have three and four bet me with damn near any two playable in that game - but the players would sooner check check to the river face up).

Additionally, none of these players notice when I "go away" in a hand, they only notice when I raise. They further lack the ability to either put me on a quality hand or put me on a less than quality hand. Thus, post flop, these players only have their own hand strength to go by. The pool of players' failure to adjust to my style of play, in my opinion, gives me a significan edge in this game. Should the table adjust to my play, I'd certainly need to readjust quickly - else call for rebuys early and often.

It should be further noted that my win rate, despite full rake and "excessive tipping" is still above 6 BB / hr in this game. Though, I've only logged 55-60 hours in this game - which we all know is nowhere near statistically significant.

Finally, I should point out that said individual who started this post does not philosophically line up with raising or reraising simply because the odds of winning a pot with a given hand be better than the odds the pot is laying (i.e. - 5:1 to win a hand, but pot is laying 8:1 on your call). He'd call under those circumstances, whereas I propose raising more often than not because your payout is greater than odds of winning.

[HollywoodDB]

[ QUOTE ]
I am player of said hand pipedown speaks of. We disagree on several facts (i.e. - hand was 7s-5s, not 7-4, I raised from EP and then capped after having eight callers and 1 raiser preflop).

In this particular 3/6 limit game, I already have an "image" there of being both really aggressive and really lucky. The table conditions are typically loose-passive preflop and flop, and semi loose-aggressive on the turn and river. From my experiences there, because I'm very aggressive (raise with roughly my best 30% and worst 30% of playable hands), I tend to get several callers when I raise from EP. However, I tend to get several folds when I am in late position, as these players fear a raise preflop from me in LP, and thus move with a higher standard preflop when I'm yet to act. For this reason, I often raise EP to build pots, and adjust accordingly from the flop on.

The hand played out as follows (11 handed):

UTG folds, raise by me, 8 callers, BB 3 bets, I cap and all call. Flop comes 7-7-3... but really, the flop is irrelivant.

What is relivant is that I entered that pot raising with the intention of building a pot, figuring that worst case scenario, I'm several handed and if anyone is to cap it would be exactly me. However, should a cap come before it makes it to me I'd likely fold (which, for the record, if I were playing against me, I'd have three and four bet me with damn near any two playable in that game - but the players would sooner check check to the river face up).

Additionally, none of these players notice when I "go away" in a hand, they only notice when I raise. They further lack the ability to either put me on a quality hand or put me on a less than quality hand. Thus, post flop, these players only have their own hand strength to go by. The pool of players' failure to adjust to my style of play, in my opinion, gives me a significan edge in this game. Should the table adjust to my play, I'd certainly need to readjust quickly - else call for rebuys early and often.

It should be further noted that my win rate, despite full rake and "excessive tipping" is still above 6 BB / hr in this game. Though, I've only logged 55-60 hours in this game - which we all know is nowhere near statistically significant.

Finally, I should point out that said individual who started this post does not philosophically line up with raising or reraising simply because the odds of winning a pot with a given hand be better than the odds the pot is laying (i.e. - 5:1 to win a hand, but pot is laying 8:1 on your call). He'd call under those circumstances, whereas I propose raising more often than not because your payout is greater than odds of winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just sorta skimmed this thread, so maybe I missd something. If you really play like this, you will be busto soon.

[KitCloudkicker]

[ QUOTE ]
I am player of said hand pipedown speaks of. We disagree on several facts (i.e. - hand was 7s-5s, not 7-4, I raised from EP and then capped after having eight callers and 1 raiser preflop).

In this particular 3/6 limit game, I already have an "image" there of being both really aggressive and really lucky. The table conditions are typically loose-passive preflop and flop, and semi loose-aggressive on the turn and river. From my experiences there, because I'm very aggressive (raise with roughly my best 30% and worst 30% of playable hands), I tend to get several callers when I raise from EP. However, I tend to get several folds when I am in late position, as these players fear a raise preflop from me in LP, and thus move with a higher standard preflop when I'm yet to act. For this reason, I often raise EP to build pots, and adjust accordingly from the flop on.

The hand played out as follows (11 handed):

UTG folds, raise by me, 8 callers, BB 3 bets, I cap and all call. Flop comes 7-7-3... but really, the flop is irrelivant.

What is relivant is that I entered that pot raising with the intention of building a pot, figuring that worst case scenario, I'm several handed and if anyone is to cap it would be exactly me. However, should a cap come before it makes it to me I'd likely fold (which, for the record, if I were playing against me, I'd have three and four bet me with damn near any two playable in that game - but the players would sooner check check to the river face up).

Additionally, none of these players notice when I "go away" in a hand, they only notice when I raise. They further lack the ability to either put me on a quality hand or put me on a less than quality hand. Thus, post flop, these players only have their own hand strength to go by. The pool of players' failure to adjust to my style of play, in my opinion, gives me a significan edge in this game. Should the table adjust to my play, I'd certainly need to readjust quickly - else call for rebuys early and often.

It should be further noted that my win rate, despite full rake and "excessive tipping" is still above 6 BB / hr in this game. Though, I've only logged 55-60 hours in this game - which we all know is nowhere near statistically significant.

Finally, I should point out that said individual who started this post does not philosophically line up with raising or reraising simply because the odds of winning a pot with a given hand be better than the odds the pot is laying (i.e. - 5:1 to win a hand, but pot is laying 8:1 on your call). He'd call under those circumstances, whereas I propose raising more often than not because your payout is greater than odds of winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

you sound like those people who call 3 bets cold with 32s because everyone else is playing "big cards."

welcome to bustoville.

[Xhad]

-Deception matters less the bigger and more mulitway a pot gets; by extension deception matters the least in loose games
-Immediate equity matters more as more money goes in early compared to how much goes in on later streets. Your building big pots with bad hands on purpose just guarantees the negative equity of your plays
-There are plenty of ways to look like an aggressive retard without actually playing like an aggressive retard. Stuff ilke reraising and capping actual good drawing hands like 98s or 22 in a pot that you know will be multiway, for example.
-If you think the board is irrelevant in a multiway pot in a loose game you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

EDIT: lol,

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, I should point out that said individual who started this post does not philosophically line up with raising or reraising simply because the odds of winning a pot with a given hand be better than the odds the pot is laying (i.e. - 5:1 to win a hand, but pot is laying 8:1 on your call). He'd call under those circumstances, whereas I propose raising more often than not because your payout is greater than odds of winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a philosophical question, it's a mathematical one. And you're wrong.

[BeerMe]

[ QUOTE ]
-If you think the board is irrelevant in a multiway pot in a loose game you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.



[/ QUOTE ]

"Board irrelivant" referred to it didn't matter what the flop came, as the play in question was preflop in nature.

[ QUOTE ]

This is not a philosophical question, it's a mathematical one. And you're wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

How am I wrong here?