NLCASH $100, 2 tough QQ hands

[MasterLJ]

Same villain:

Reads: He calls with almost any two OOP to a button raise.

His 3bet range is huge. He's shown Q4o, Q7o etc many many times as we've been playing 400 hands.

His 3bet calling range is probably the top 50-60% of hands in position.

He has selectively called VERY light in pots where it looks like you missed your flush.

Hand 1
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (BB): $215.90
SB: $169.70

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB raises to $3.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $10.00</font>, SB calls $7.00

Flop: ($20) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $15.00</font>, SB calls $15.00

Turn: ($50) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">SB bets $31.00</font>, Hero?


Does anyone like turn check? Obviously it's to get all in, but is that really min/maxing? Minimizing risk to a better hand and/or maximizing value at the same time?


Hand 2
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

BB: $225.20
Hero (SB): $232.70

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, BB calls $2.00

Flop: ($6) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $6.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $21.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $36.00</font>, Hero calls $15.00

Turn: ($78) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $55.00</font>, Hero calls $55.00

River: ($188) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets all-in for $131.20</font>, Hero? ($130ish behind)

I think river is an easy easy call given turn, but I'd like thoughts on the entire hand.

[2461Badugi]

Boy, I'd hate calling the second hand. You've told him you're calling down, and he doesn't care.

The first hand is too hard for me. I think you're going broke regardless against any better hand, though, so it's more about maxing than minning.

[MasterLJ]

I left out something just as important, my image to him:

I've called down light quite a few times and I've been C/Ring flop a lot in the last 20-30 hands (something I didn't do much of in the match prior to the last stretch).

Hand 2, my read for him is that all sets are off the table. He would have 3bet with any pocket pair. T6/62 are possible. He stacked me earlier in a similar situation, albeit his 4bet was larger:

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

BB: $105.00
Hero (SB): $219.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, BB calls $2.00

Flop: ($6) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">BB bets $6.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $20.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $59.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $216.00</font>, BB calls all-in for $43.00
Uncalled bet of $114.00 returned to Hero

Turn: ($210) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

River: ($210) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $210.00 ($0.50 Rake)

EDIT: villain had 64os

[IronFly]

Hand 2 I like, I think he bets alot of hands you beat. Sometimes I raise turn, but I like this line and use it too.

Hand 1 is trickier. I like betting the whole way. I think a cr here is bad. The only hands you really want to get it in against are combo draws (obv he may have it) but I think he'll correctly fold weak pairs, 1-way draws, and call you with the straight or flush.

[imfatandugly]

in hand 2, the gayass minirereraise on the flop is what makes the river a FOLD.

[bills427]

[ QUOTE ]
in hand 2, the gayass minirereraise on the flop is what makes the river a FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

VN

[MasterLJ]

[ QUOTE ]
in hand 2, the gayass minirereraise on the flop is what makes the river a FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you guys say that? Look at the QQ hand where villain had a monster, he did not minreraise.

What range of hands are you putting him on here?

[RicherThanRichie]

Hand 1 I like but depends a lot on how you would play AK, a flush, J10, AhX

Hand 2 That flop is very dry obviously. Had you two had any history of fighting on those types of flops? His hand really seems like 106 or a stone bluff. Also FWIW a bunch of gut-shots got there to complete a small part of his bluffing range. Unless he his capable of running a mutli street bluff or would turn 910 J10 into one. I would fold river and like how you played rest of hand.

[En Passant]

I would play for stacks with each of these hands, no question about it.

Also, your 3 bets arent big enough.

[imfatandugly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in hand 2, the gayass minirereraise on the flop is what makes the river a FOLD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you guys say that? Look at the QQ hand where villain had a monster, he did not minreraise.

What range of hands are you putting him on here?

[/ QUOTE ]

These are entirely different scenerios. this is what i would think of his range based on the action of the hand. Number one, he leads into you on the flop, now 90% of the time when i see this i run into either a big draw, a big hand (two pair or better) or air, sometimes people do it with a weak such as bottom pair or gutshot.

Now once he lead into you, you raised him. His response to that was to make a very small 3 bet to you. To me this gets rid of all the weakly made hands such as bottom pair, gutshots. It also reduces the chance that he has a big draw significantly. Most of the time when villian leads into you with a draw and decides to 3 bet he is not going to make it a very small 3 bet. He lead into you so he could get all his money in on the flop, typically this is not how you do it. So now at this point I would say that narrows his range down to 2pair or better, or sometimes top pair good kicker.
On the turn he makes a 3/4ths pot bet, when he knows he has shown alot of strength and your still calling. So he either is way over valuing top pair or getting value from 2 pair or better (and charging all the numerous draws out there).

To me the river bet would be idiotic with top pair, i mean all the draws have missed which is a large part of your range so what value would there be in making a pot sized bet there... he certainly isnt hoping your calling when he makes that bet on the river (when he has top pair).

That said people sometimes defy all reason and do stupid stupid [censored]. But with this action i'd say thats pretty unlikely.

Also, I would say if i was going to go with this hand (which i would be very wary of given flop action) I would just shove turn, i don't want to second guess myself on the river when one of the draws hits.