bireli video, and musical talent: nature vs nurture

turnipmonster · #1 01-12-2007, 10:31 PM

this is a video of bireli lagrene playing guitar when he was 11 or 12. halfway through this video, he takes the upright bass from the bass player and plays an amazing solo on that also.

pretty astounding and imo good evidence that some cats just have it. fwiw he plays even better now in a multitude of different styles, sings great AND rips it up on accordion as well as electric bass. just ridiculous.

balkii · #2 01-13-2007, 09:16 PM

nice link. never heard of the guy before. real nice guitar solo! bass solo leaves a little to be desired but considering the guy is 12 years old it is indeed friggin amazing.

kerowo · #3 01-13-2007, 09:36 PM

A case can be made that there are not really virtuosos in the sense that someone is born better at some abstract task than someone else. Instead if you look at the lifes of most of these folks you'll find that they started at an early age and did nothing but play their instrument hours and hours a day. The thing that makes them different than most kids is they didn't get bored with it and start something else a dozen times a day. So if you have the ability to practice something 8 to 10 hours a day every day for years you'd get good at it too. Doesn't take away from their chops, doesn't mean they aren't good at learning things. Just means that there probably aren't people born to play a musical instrument.

cliff · #4 01-13-2007, 09:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A case can be made that there are not really virtuosos in the sense that someone is born better at some abstract task than someone else. Instead if you look at the lifes of most of these folks you'll find that they started at an early age and did nothing but play their instrument hours and hours a day. The thing that makes them different than most kids is they didn't get bored with it and start something else a dozen times a day. So if you have the ability to practice something 8 to 10 hours a day every day for years you'd get good at it too. Doesn't take away from their chops, doesn't mean they aren't good at learning things. Just means that there probably aren't people born to play a musical instrument.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the opposite case could also be made. I.e. that we get bored with things because we sense we do not have an innate talent for them. We like to believe that there are many things we dabbled in that we could have been great at if we had stuck with them and put in the hours that the masters have (in whatever arena), but the fact that one quit something may be an indication of a lack of talent (or of superior talent). Said another way, perhaps people stay with certain areas of interest and put in insane hours of study/practice because of their natural talent for them.

kerowo · #5 01-13-2007, 11:06 PM

Possibly, except your way of saying it makes it alright to quit at something that bores you because you didn't have any "talent" at it anyway. My way says you don't need talent, you need desire. Which world do you want to live in?

Actually, the whole "Myth of Talent" thing supposes that those folks are a little autistic which allows them to focus so much, much more than normal people.

cliff · #6 01-13-2007, 11:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Possibly, except your way of saying it makes it alright to quit at something that bores you because you didn't have any "talent" at it anyway. My way says you don't need talent, you need desire. Which world do you want to live in?

Actually, the whole "Myth of Talent" thing supposes that those folks are a little autistic which allows them to focus so much, much more than normal people.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I wouldn't say that (although I think you raise a valid point). Rather that it might not be ok to view activities of others in an arena that you did quit as an indication of just extra work, as opposed viewing your own exit from that area as possibly due to other issues. I suspect there is some truth in both, but I constantly here people discuss how good they could have been in some area that they pursued at some point if they had been more disciplined. I guess I think the hard work sometimes comes easily to people when they are doing something they are really good at and love, and that these three facets (ability, work ethic, and performance) are generally related.

I'm also not entirely sure that we get to pick which world we live in when it comes to performance. I would enjoy living in a world where I was an Olympic class runner, but at some point I am limited be my physiology. It is easier to see these limitations when they are in a primarily physical arena, but I think people can pretend to not have such in other areas of pursuit.