INSULTING

[HiatusOver]

Justin West, horrible poker article with no facts and the most basic braindead argument to a subject he obviously hasnt researched enough


Ugh, I mean obviously noone even knows who this guy is and he is pretty irrelevant...but pokerpages does rake in the money as a site, and its so sad that they actually allow this drivel. The guy has NO FACTS...not sure why this bothers me so much, cause I cashed out of AP a long time ago cause I hate AP/UB, yet this still irks me so much.

[HiatusOver]

Man this is scary how dumb this guy is...

So bad...scroll down for his thoughts if u have read the druff and ap response stuff


"Okay, and now for my two cents...

I really would have expected more from a player as well-known as Dan. Really? Accusing an online player of cheating, because they have a tendancy to win with crap cards? All one had to do was spend about half an hour during the 2007 World Series of Poker cruising the rails among the myriad of cash games, to see that ridiculous wins occur with ridiculous cards all the time. "

I honestly feel bad for this guy that he wastes time in his life to write so much on a subject he has NO CLUE about...he obviously has no experience with PTracker, Statistics, High Stakes poker, advanaced limit hold em

[HiatusOver]

More From his article...

"""Anyway, let's say for just a second that such a super-user account WERE created for some reason. Does anyone really think that Absolute Poker is stupid enough to continue letting these players use it, if that turns out to be the case? Why would they issue a press release saying they've detected no wrong-doing, and continue to allow these players to cheat? Surely something like that couldn't be kept under wraps for long, and when the smoking gun was leaked it would spell the end of their business. This leads me to one conclusion: there is no cheating going on, and this is just a matter of players being angry and taking it out wherever they can.

So what if these players made calls that no player in their right mind would make, only to drag the pot? Doesn't that exact thing happen in every poker game in the world, whether it's live or online? Isn't that precisely the reason while poker is exciting?"""


Wow, I guess u cracked it Justin! Great conclusion...nice typos also

[Schneids]

Hahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha.

Man I thought I was over and done with this AP stuff, but reading his drivel is renewing my desire to prove the 99.5% likely-to-be-true reality that the super user account does/did exist.

That and, last night I got pissed off by AP VIP support calling me, and beginning the call with, "Mike, I have some good news for you." Hearing that, I started to think maybe he was going to say something like, "we have discovered that certain accounts which played you were cheating, and are rewarding your account $7800 which they won off you" or something.

But nope, nothing like that. He was calling to let me know that I was being offered an exclusive VIP bonus if I deposit again within the next 7 days (a few days ago I transferred all my AP money to UB). Gee thanks AP.




Anyway, back to that guy's article -- I wish he would realize that the very people making these allegations against AP are some of the BIGGEST WINNERS on the site, and probably some of the better hold em specialists in the world. I cashed out from AP knowing that I am probably losing some EV doing so, since I have won and would probably continue to win on AP -- I just do not want my money on a site that is going to do nothing to protect its players from obvious cheating (I mean at the least, they didn't even freeze either account upon the VERY OBVIOUS hundreds of thousands of dollars of chip dumping... That alone says plenty about how safe your money is on AP).

[Crusher19]

i was pretty skeptical at firt, but after seeing the hand histories and the number of hands this guy plays, i think something is definitely going on. the opinions of respected high stakes players on here are far more credible than this guy. I don't see why you're so insulted though, everyone is entitled to their opinion. Who cares what this guy thinks, I think everyone who knows anything about this would trust the opinions of the well respected players that actually play in these games.

[HiatusOver]

I just hate that this guy is so insulting to people who actually lost thousands of dollars by being cheated. Pokerpages allows this idiot to write on their site so I blame them I guess. I also dont think u saying that "everyone is entitled to an opinion" means much...the thing is, his opinion is based on no fact and no research...yet he tries to pass it off as the end all conclusion, its scary how dumb some people are

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
I just hate that this guy is so insulting to people who actually lost thousands of dollars by being cheated. Pokerpages allows this idiot to write on their site so I blame them I guess. I also dont think u saying that "everyone is entitled to an opinion" means much...the thing is, his opinion is based on no fact and no research...yet he tries to pass it off as the end all conclusion, its scary how dumb some people are

[/ QUOTE ]


the fact that the author of that piece (justin west?) rules out the possibility of cheating taking place is ludicrous. for one thing, theres a million hackers out there trying to infiltrate anything and everything to their malicious benefit everyday. regardles of whether or not AP is in on it, it doesnt mean someone else isn't, or capable of doing so. furthermore, i would be shocked if the people who reap the benefits of the money AP makes were in on this, i.e., there's likely many people in the AP company who dont make tons of cash that would do something like this.

in my opinion this is probably an employee of absolute poker who did this, not the higher-ups, and not mark seif.

fwiw though, there's no way anyone runs that stupidly hot for even a small amount of hands. collectively we've played billions and billions of hands here at 2p2. and everytime someone runs hotter than balls we hear about it through our circles of friends etc. this just doesnt happen, and i would imagine the likelihood of this occuring without cheating would be somewhere in the 1/1,000,000,000,000,000 range.


it's also no coincidence in my mind that it happened on AP. they're the worst in the business as far as customer support goes, and everything else imho. i deposited on their site plenty of time and when i went to cashout they froze my money and my account and i have to send them highly sensitive info to get my money, which i was going to do before this fiasco, but decided to wait before i sent them such things.

[Dan Druff]

I'm surprised to see so many people (Mr. West included) quoting my post from here, often claiming that I "started" this frenzy regarding the cheating accusations.

I came into this whole thing a bit late, actually. I was approached by several players who felt Graycat et. all were cheating, but I initially shrugged it off. It just seemed too far-fetched to be true.

After seeing all of the evidence, I'm now a believer. However, somehow I've become the instigator according to many blogs and news articles I've read on the subject. Weird.

BTW, there's a HUGE difference between running hot and playing perfectly post-flop.

Example of running hot where cheating is not suspected:

AK raises, AA 3-bets, villain 4-bets with 62o. Flop is K66. Villain drags a huge pot due to sheer luck.

Example of hand that looks like a cheater:

Player (9h8h) raises, villain 3-bets with Q3o. Flop is JhTd2h. Player bets, villian raises, player 3-bets, villain caps. Turn is 4s. Player bets, villain raises, player 3-bets, villain 4 bets. River is 8s. Player checks, villain checks.

In the above example, the villain capped queen high with no draw on both the flop and turn, yet checked the river down when his opponent hit a pair and would call a bet. The above hand smacks of cheating, and is only explainable if the villain acts this way often when hopelessly BEHIND, as well. However, in the case of these accused cheaters, this rarely happened. Instead, they seemed surprisingly quick to fold once their opponent had them drawing dead.

That's not running hot. That's somehow always knowing for sure when you're ahead, even if it's with queen high with no draw.

[Abbaddabba]

any one (or even series) of example(s) isn't going to be persuasive.

without context, it just fades into the noise of all the whiners looking for an excuse for why they lose.

you need to know how many hands the guy played, and how many of those had extremely suspicious behavior (when isolated for specific time frames) to fully appreciate the riggedness of it all.


either way, i prefer the kind of retards who would take his article at face value to have faith in absolute poker, and online gambling in general. i cant bare to pull myself away out of principle when it's still by far the best option for what i play.

[mntbikr15]

Dan,

Id guess youve been picked as a front runner for the whole movement because you present your thoughts clearer and more eloquently than most involved in this.