wages rising in China

[andyfox]

Yeah, probably, as I said in another response, bad for the people who lost their jobs, but overall good for everyone else. I've seen the standard of living in South China skyrocket for people there. [Not to say there aren't problems (Deng said, "When you open the door, flies come in.") inherent in the process.]

[T50_Omaha8]

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Are these the Chinese people who might lose their jobs or the Americans who lost their jobs x years ago?

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It's us who lost the jobs years ago but are now being unable to afford the products. Sooner or later all the debt is going to drag them down. (Their debt, not the national debt, which will probably help in dragging them down)

[/ QUOTE ]If enough people can't afford the products, then there won't be a demand for international cheap labor in the first place--the cheap labor will be at home. This is mostly a self-regulating problem.

I'll admit there are losers in the globalization process, but I can't ignore the multitude of humanity that has been helped by it.

[ThaSaltCracka]

The whole globalization process's effects can't be clearly defined IMO.

People in the US (and other countries) lose their jobs, which is [censored]. These jobs move to developing countries, which is a good thing for these countries. But these developing countries also have horrible labor and environmental laws which hurt a lot of people.

A question I would pose, is globalization a necessary "evil" for those of us in 1st world countries, and do the positives of this globalization counteract the negatives.

[TomVeil]

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If enough people can't afford the products, then there won't be a demand for international cheap labor in the first place--the cheap labor will be at home. This is mostly a self-regulating problem.

I'll admit there are losers in the globalization process, but I can't ignore the multitude of humanity that has been helped by it.

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I disagree that the "cheap labor will be at home". For companies to move their jobs back here, they'd need to see a financial reason to do it. Paying people .15/hr is pretty tough to beat.......

[TomCollins]

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The whole globalization process's effects can't be clearly defined IMO.

People in the US (and other countries) lose their jobs, which is [censored]. These jobs move to developing countries, which is a good thing for these countries. But these developing countries also have horrible labor and environmental laws which hurt a lot of people.

A question I would pose, is globalization a necessary "evil" for those of us in 1st world countries, and do the positives of this globalization counteract the negatives.

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If these places mistreat workers, how bad do you think their lives were BEFORE they started working there if they actually chose to do this.

[ThaSaltCracka]

heh, they might have been broke, but they weren't "battered".

[Kaj]

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The whole globalization process's effects can't be clearly defined IMO.

People in the US (and other countries) lose their jobs, which is [censored]. These jobs move to developing countries, which is a good thing for these countries. But these developing countries also have horrible labor and environmental laws which hurt a lot of people.

A question I would pose, is globalization a necessary "evil" for those of us in 1st world countries, and do the positives of this globalization counteract the negatives.

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If these places mistreat workers, how bad do you think their lives were BEFORE they started working there if they actually chose to do this.

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This is a bad logic path as industrialization has for the most part destroyed much of the way of life of rural societies.

An example close to home, although dated: You couldn't compare how great it is to work in an Omaha factory to not working in an Omaha factory but living off the land instead if the industrialization and commercial agriculture of the plains has destroyed the game and natural resources which would have permitted a very satisfying existence. Read anything about China and you'll learn that industrialization has destroyed clean water areas, wiped out species of fish and game that people relied on for generations, and made it impossible to get along as was done for thousands of years before.

[TomCollins]

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heh, they might have been broke, but they weren't "battered".

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So why did they choose this? If they are enslaved or force is used against them, I am 100% with you.

[Kaj]

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heh, they might have been broke, but they weren't "battered".

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So why did they choose this? If they are enslaved or force is used against them, I am 100% with you.

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They chose it because industrialization has made their previous way of life impossible. You are classifying the problem as the solution, because the problem has destroyed the other solutions (ironically, you vehemently fight against this error when it comes to government, but not when it comes to global economic development).

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China's economic boom is dramatically changing [its] environmental landscape—polluting the water and air, desertifying the land, and diminishing the country's natural resources at terrifying rates," said Elizabeth Economy, the director of Asia Studies at the New York City-based Council of Foreign Relations.

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Almost all of the nation's rivers are considered polluted to some degree, and half of the population lacks access to clean drinking water. Ninety percent of urban water bodies are severely polluted. ... severe water scarcity in Northern China is a serious threat to sustained economic growth and has forced the government to begin implementing a largescale diversion of water from the Yangtze River to northern cities, including Beijing and Tianjin.

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Acid rain falls on 30% of the country. China environmental laws are among the strictest in the world, but enforcing these laws has been difficult in China. The World Health Organization has found that about 750,000 people die prematurely each year from respiratory problems in China.

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Shanxi Province is the heart of China's coal industry. Coal provides about two-thirds of the nation's energy, and China's urgent need for more energy has led to hundreds of coal mines springing up here. These unregulated and illegal mines have ravaged the already denuded mountains and polluted what's left of the groundwater in this dry and dusty province.

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According to an 18-month study released recently by the Organisation for EconomicPolluted river- Songhuajiang Co-operation and Development (OECD) and previous exposed World Bank report, here’s some numbers showing the deadly pollution of air, water, land and the health status in China: 1. “highly polluted” water, covering: 1/3 the length of all China’s rivers, 75% of its major lakes, 25% of all its coastal waters.

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27% of the landmass of the country is now becoming desertified

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Nearly 70% of the rural population has no access to safe sanitation.

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Approximately 28 percent of China’s landmass has been stripped due to deforestation and soil erosion. Desertification has also been taking place due to extensive dryness in land. Land has also been destroyed due to acid rain. Polluted land is expanding by approximately two million hectares each year. Land is also heavily polluted with heavy metals and toxic substances. About 90 percent of China’s grasslands have been degraded to varying degrees. Solid waste disposal has also been serious problem...

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Statistics show that more than 130,000 hectares of farmland have been damaged by industrial solid waste, and over 5.3 million hectares of land are affected by air pollution.

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"If you have a common good like clean air or water or land or a forest, and one player, like a local official or a company that's in league with the local government, starts abusing it, there is not only the damage caused by that actor, but of course, everybody else then says, 'Well, if they're going to do that, why should I play by the rules?' And pretty soon everybody is chopping down trees or dumping waste into the river or operating a backyard zinc smelter."

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The relationship between the central government and local governments causes problems in another way. For the past quarter century, Beijing has rewarded and promoted local officials based almost entirely on the economic growth in their areas. That's prompted local officials to push for ever more development, no matter the cost to the environment.