Nazis in Atlanta? - Page 3

govman6767 · #1 10-02-2007, 05:30 PM

Director Eli M. Rosenbaum of the Office of Special Investigations

?? Fair Trial ???

This country needs to get it's damn prioritys straight.

I want to see how much tax money is being wasted on this witchhunt

JackWhite · #2 10-02-2007, 05:36 PM

Maybe I am in a small minority on this one, but I have never been a huge supporter of the claim that "following orders is no excuse." If you are drafted into an army of a brutal totalitarian regime, and if you don't follow orders, you will be killed or sent to prison, wouldn't almost all of us follow orders?

Copernicus · #3 10-02-2007, 05:31 PM

"Assuming all what? I'd like some proof he has blood on his hands"

How about his admission? Or is he suffering from dementia and imagined it?

DblBarrelJ · #4 10-02-2007, 05:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Assuming all what? I'd like some proof he has blood on his hands"

How about his admission? Or is he suffering from dementia and imagined it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please highlight the portion where he directly admits to killing.

Do not highlight the part where he admits to training dogs. Highlight the part when he admits to killing.

Copernicus · #5 10-02-2007, 05:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Assuming all what? I'd like some proof he has blood on his hands"

How about his admission? Or is he suffering from dementia and imagined it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please highlight the portion where he directly admits to killing.

Do not highlight the part where he admits to training dogs. Highlight the part when he admits to killing.

[/ QUOTE ]

He admits to training dogs whose purpose was to tear apart anyone trying to escape = killing.

bobman0330 · #6 10-02-2007, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Assuming all what? I'd like some proof he has blood on his hands"

How about his admission? Or is he suffering from dementia and imagined it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please highlight the portion where he directly admits to killing.

Do not highlight the part where he admits to training dogs. Highlight the part when he admits to killing.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what if he didn't directly kill anyone? He just actively participated in keeping thousands of people locked up in horrible conditions. Deport him! Since you seem pretty opposed to the immigration of people whose only fault is being Mexican, I'm surprised that you're willing to overlook black marks like "SS member" and "concentration camp guard."

SNOWBALL · #7 10-02-2007, 10:47 PM

It sounds like this guy neither has the ability or the inclination to be a threat to anyone anymore. If he had committed the crime more recently, or the extent of his crimes could be proven, or he wasn't so damned old at the moment, or if he wasn't so damned young at the time, I can understand having a different viewpoint. As it is, it's not like he was an officer or anything.

Everyone who feels so self-righteous about this should consider that the huge majority of people will act more brutally than this man and will do so with even less pressure. Consider the Milgram experiment for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

PLOlover · #8 10-02-2007, 10:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone who feels so self-righteous about this should consider that the huge majority of people will act more brutally than this man and will do so with even less pressure. Consider the Milgram experiment for example

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah that's why I said if he was a prison guard for like the whole war, 6 years, he probably would have turned into a total sadist and would deserve to be fried.

you can probably tell if he turned rotten by what he did with his life once he got to the US. I mean, if he became a prison guard then he should just like be summarily executed or something.

madnak · #9 10-02-2007, 11:04 PM

Thank you, Snowball. Also check the Stanford prison experiment and the Asch confomity experiments for other famous studies on the subject. There are many more where those came from.

Ordinary people do horrible things under the right conditions. Even if this guy had killed people, the circumstances would be almost impossible for us to understand.

Training guard dogs at a facility that he may have known nothing about isn't much of a "crime," and the justice system should never be used to enforce moral views, much less vengeful fantasies. And some of us like the "innocent until proven guilty" idea, and there's a reason for the statute of limitations (which would obviously apply to anyone whose greatest crime was serving as an accomplice by training dogs). But none of this should be necessary.

Hitler was perceived as the legitimate authority at that time, and what we know about psychology shows clearly that alone would be enough to have regular people doing all kinds of awful things. Indicting the whole country of Germany because they followed a charismatic leader who seemed like a responsible figure at the time is absurd. And there's no country in the world that wouldn't fall for similar tactics.

bobman0330 · #10 10-02-2007, 11:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you, Snowball. Also check the Stanford prison experiment and the Asch confomity experiments for other famous studies on the subject. There are many more where those came from.

Ordinary people do horrible things under the right conditions. Even if this guy had killed people, the circumstances would be almost impossible for us to understand.

Training guard dogs at a facility that he may have known nothing about isn't much of a "crime," and the justice system should never be used to enforce moral views, much less vengeful fantasies. And some of us like the "innocent until proven guilty" idea, and there's a reason for the statute of limitations (which would obviously apply to anyone whose greatest crime was serving as an accomplice by training dogs). But none of this should be necessary.

Hitler was perceived as the legitimate authority at that time, and what we know about psychology shows clearly that alone would be enough to have regular people doing all kinds of awful things. Indicting the whole country of Germany because they followed a charismatic leader who seemed like a responsible figure at the time is absurd. And there's no country in the world that wouldn't fall for similar tactics.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that people are psychologically prone to submit to pressure to do these awful things means they need to be punished MORE harshly, not less. The whole point of civilization is to compensate for the failings of human nature. The fact that it's natural to feel rage at sexual rivals doesn't make it OK to beat up someone who looks at your girlfriend. The fact that it's natural to commit murder and genocide at the behest of a charismatic leader makes it that much more important to express society's revulsion at such acts.

Also, the suggestion that he didn't know what was going on is pretty ludicrous. According to his own statement, he guarded work details. If, over the course of several months, he didn't realize that people were being enslaved and brutally mistreated, then it's because he shut his eyes to the fact.