TT utg gets 3bet and flops FD

ottsville · #1 11-02-2006, 10:31 PM

Been at the table for 25 hands. My only read at the time was that villain had done nothing remarkable over those hands. I'm at 16/16 over those 25 hands.

2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)

What's your line here?

Deviance · #2 11-02-2006, 10:46 PM

With two opponents, leading out the flop with a semibluff bet seems correct. Capping preflop has its advantages as you face the cutoff again with two bets to call cold.

cold_cash · #3 11-02-2006, 11:23 PM

Check and raise.

I'd like the CO to fold pronto, and if I wait and try to drive him out on the turn pretty much any card is going to suck, and having the turn checked through 3-handed would make me gag.

drzen · #4 11-03-2006, 03:58 AM

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With two opponents, leading out the flop with a semibluff bet seems correct. Capping preflop has its advantages as you face the cutoff again with two bets to call cold.

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He's already called two cold. I wouldn't count on his folding for two more now he's "pot committed".

I don't think you'd be semibluffing if you bet out here. You're mostly ahead.

I don't like checkraising though. A bet and a raise back to me is tough but it can easily happen if CO bets out with a pair (4s say, or 8s, either a str8 draw + pair or overpair) and BTN raises with his AcKd or better. Am I threebetting that? If I do and they both call, what am I doing on the turn? What if it's then capped? Am I definitely beaten? Can I checkfold the turn? I can't donk it, can I? I don't like betting out much either. No one is folding to a single bet. The best I can hope for is that CO raises and button gives up.

Saikkonen · #5 11-03-2006, 05:01 AM

"crunch"
reraise preflop both to gain info about button and to drive CO out or make him pay.You can then bet right into them on the flop. With only a call preflop I think you should bet anyway - if your opponents doesn't have a club at all they will have an easy fold or at least a hard decision and a bet here will drive out those with nothing at all. Try to find out and bet. Besides if one sits with a lonely higher club than yours you want to make him pay for his flushdraw.
If your are behind - well then this becomes expensive but with this hand you want to go showdown unless the others go totally bananas....

Shillx · #6 11-03-2006, 05:47 AM

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Check and raise.

I'd like the CO to fold pronto, and if I wait and try to drive him out on the turn pretty much any card is going to suck, and having the turn checked through 3-handed would make me gag.

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Yeah check/raise for sure. The only problem is if the dealer doesn't bet (he has AK [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or something). The upside is that we will know if he is slowplaying (he checks the flop and raises a turn blank). So this hand seems pretty straight forward to me.

C/r flop. Shutdown if a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] falls on the turn. If it checks though bet any non-[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and check if you make a flush.

ottsville · #7 11-03-2006, 09:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah check/raise for sure. The only problem is if the dealer doesn't bet (he has AK or something). The upside is that we will know if he is slowplaying (he checks the flop and raises a turn blank). So this hand seems pretty straight forward to me.

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I've thought about the c/r as I've been thinking about this hand, but I don't really think that is the best play here. I may be missing somethiing though.

If we give bttn a solid 3bet range(prs TT+, AQs, and AK) the FD helps us(we now have a redraw against his overpairs that do not contain a club) but we are still behind to them and are crushed by two more hands (AQ and AK of clubs). Also if we cr the flop, wouldn't a fold to any three bet be called for? I also think that if CO holds A or K of club, he's probably not going anywhere, so facing him with two on the flop seems less important. I think that we are often ahead of him so he's creating overlay here. I have to admit that I didn't give all that much tought to CO during the hand since I was doing other stuff at the time.

ottsville · #8 11-03-2006, 09:21 AM

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I don't think you'd be semibluffing if you bet out here. You're mostly ahead.

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I agree that the FD helps, but I think we are still often behind here given that it was three bet pf.

Using the range I quoted above:
Behind 24 overpairs
Behind AcQc and AcKc - 2 hands
ahead of 18 AQs,AK hands
tied with TT

The FD gives us a redraw against 12 of the overpair hands that do not contain a club and gives 7 of the 19 hands we are ahead of have a redraw to a better flush.

If we bet out, what do we do if we get raised? What hands raise us here?

ottsville · #9 11-03-2006, 09:29 AM

I've got to run to an appointment, but here's the turn:

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 4 folds, CO calls, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, Button bets, Hero calls, CO folds.

Turn: (6.25 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

4708romain · #10 11-03-2006, 12:48 PM

i'm playing as passively as you did on the flop. i'd like to take a line that allows us to see a river for cheap, then decide what to do depending on if a club hits. i give up if CO starts a war with button at some point in the hand. and i want to take a line that lets button overplay some non-club AK.
on the turn i would c/c, b/f the river
if he checks behind on the turn, bet the river.