OESD - Tricky turn decision

Conny · #1 11-02-2006, 06:33 PM

I have no reads on any of the players at this table. This is the third hand for me at this table.

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, 1 fold, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (11 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: (5.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero?

I'm getting 4.3:1 on this call wich I consider quite marginal. A 9s or 9c, a As or Ac might not help. However, even if I cannot get the math right this is a call, right?

Xhad · #2 11-02-2006, 06:51 PM

-You stand to make money on the river when you hit your straight
-You may win by pairing, particularly if it's a non-[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K.

bozlax · #3 11-02-2006, 06:56 PM

You can't call this.

Heron · #4 11-02-2006, 06:59 PM

I would not call this. Probably at least one of your opponents already has a straight. In that case you would be drawing for a tie.

bravos1 · #5 11-02-2006, 07:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would not call this. Probably at least one of your opponents already has a straight. In that case you would be drawing for a tie.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] HUH? If someone already has a straight, then there is no way for the hero to draw to a split pot if he hits his straight. Hero has the nut straight draw and no one can chop w/ hero if they already have a made hand.

Goodnews · #6 11-02-2006, 07:43 PM

This is not even close to a call. To call this you need to be sure that you will collect 4 bets on the river.

drzen · #7 11-02-2006, 09:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is not even close to a call. To call this you need to be sure that you will collect 4 bets on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? I mean, I think it's a fold, but why four bets exactly?

Scary_Tiger · #8 11-03-2006, 12:29 AM

Folding this is awful.

DrMega · #9 11-03-2006, 04:00 AM

Seems to be a difference of opinion here among some experienced folks - I'd be interested to hear what we're putting sb and utg+1 on. I'd be inclined to think K and Q are worth at least partial outs, as well as the obvious nut outs.

OTOH, there are now two flush draws out there and several people to act behind, so even the nut outs are probably not full outs either? I would also be a little worried about those left to act, particularly if sb gets squirrely and re-raises.

I'm just thinking out loud here and definately in learning mode.

milesdyson · #10 11-03-2006, 04:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Folding this is awful.

[/ QUOTE ]
agree, and raise preflop.

the flop checked around so it's very possible utg1 has just a J or T. and the flopped flush draw usually bets so you can only worry about the turned flush draw. call. sucks if it goes for more bets but it's pretty damn unlikely given the action. SB can only 3bet if he slowplayed the flop.

edit: i missed that SB pfr'd and checked the flop, which is somewhat bad because he might actually have a 3betting hand. but then if he does have one of those you're likely to go a lot of bets on the river (also dont forget that other players behind you will make horrid calls to pump up the pot before we see teh river).