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  #1  
Old 11-01-2006, 03:57 AM
QueBob QueBob is offline
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Default Slowplay somes goot, right?

Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, SB calls, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (13SB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (8BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (11BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero caps</font>, UTG+1 calls.

Results:
Final pot: 19BB
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  #2  
Old 11-01-2006, 06:31 AM
Niediam Niediam is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

Winning the minimum on two streets = bad.
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  #3  
Old 11-01-2006, 07:00 AM
SuLi SuLi is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

Since UTG-1 is aggressive from PF on start raising the latest on the turn!
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  #4  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:18 AM
MrWookie MrWookie is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

[ QUOTE ]
Winning the minimum on two streets = bad.

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #5  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:45 AM
DrModern DrModern is offline
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Location: O.K., so I\'m a fratboy
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

[ QUOTE ]
Since UTG-1 is aggressive from PF on start raising the latest on the turn!

[/ QUOTE ]

Raising the turn always reads as "ZOMG trips lol slowrollaments."

I'd avoid doing this with a hand you're looking to get maximum value from.

Also, IMO, this sort of hand post is not really that great. You flop quads really really infrequently, there's no point fretting over how to get value from it. It simply isn't that central to your LHE game and reads mostly like a brag post.

Basically if bets go into the center be happy. Move on.
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  #6  
Old 11-01-2006, 11:52 AM
Hellmouth Hellmouth is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

[ QUOTE ]
Winning the minimum on two streets = bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure that I agree that he won the minimum. For one he got someone over calling along until the river which adds extra bets. Also raising the flop may send the aggressor running for cover with missed overs.

The turn was not a good card to raise since it probably helps no one.

Raising the River is great because he has totally disguised the strength of his hand and he gets max value from AK. However raising the turn might be better still since any PP is going to call you down.

I don't know. I don't think hero extracts much more by playing this quickly and to me a slow play is in order since his hand is practically unbeatable. Coupled with an aggressive villain this is ok in my opinion.

However if someone could elaborate on a strategy to extract more I would be interested.

Greg
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  #7  
Old 11-01-2006, 12:10 PM
TomTom TomTom is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

I like how it was played. Nothing is a scare card here, best let someone catch something worth betting. With SB calling it down, yeah, smooth call.

River SB calls like never, so finally raising it gets one extra bet.
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  #8  
Old 11-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Fantam Fantam is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Winning the minimum on two streets = bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure that I agree that he won the minimum. For one he got someone over calling along until the river which adds extra bets. Also raising the flop may send the aggressor running for cover with missed overs.

The turn was not a good card to raise since it probably helps no one.

Raising the River is great because he has totally disguised the strength of his hand and he gets max value from AK. However raising the turn might be better still since any PP is going to call you down.

I don't know. I don't think hero extracts much more by playing this quickly and to me a slow play is in order since his hand is practically unbeatable. Coupled with an aggressive villain this is ok in my opinion.

However if someone could elaborate on a strategy to extract more I would be interested.

Greg

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt whether UTG capped preflop with overcards unless he had AKs, and then I would not have expected him to bet the flop.

If UTG had KK or QQ, I suspect that a flop raise may have gained an extra flop bet, but usually lost the opportunity to gain an extra big bet by raising on the river.

As a K fell on the river in this hand, I expect that you would have had the same river action anyway, if UTG had had KK. (Perhaps that is what he did have.)

However, I suspect that you may have gained extra bets from UTG by raising the flop if he had AA.

I am not sure whether raising the flop would have caused the SB to fold. He seemed quite happy to call 2 cold preflop, and so for all we know he may also have called 2 on the flop.

Overall though, I agree with you that I dont think that OP played this hand badly, as it would seem that you would only be likely to gain more bets if UTG specifically had AA.
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  #9  
Old 11-01-2006, 06:46 PM
drzen drzen is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Winning the minimum on two streets = bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not sure that I agree that he won the minimum. For one he got someone over calling along until the river which adds extra bets. Also raising the flop may send the aggressor running for cover with missed overs.

The turn was not a good card to raise since it probably helps no one.

Raising the River is great because he has totally disguised the strength of his hand and he gets max value from AK. However raising the turn might be better still since any PP is going to call you down.

I don't know. I don't think hero extracts much more by playing this quickly and to me a slow play is in order since his hand is practically unbeatable. Coupled with an aggressive villain this is ok in my opinion.

However if someone could elaborate on a strategy to extract more I would be interested.

Greg

[/ QUOTE ]

I doubt whether UTG capped preflop with overcards unless he had AKs, and then I would not have expected him to bet the flop.

If UTG had KK or QQ, I suspect that a flop raise may have gained an extra flop bet, but usually lost the opportunity to gain an extra big bet by raising on the river.

As a K fell on the river in this hand, I expect that you would have had the same river action anyway, if UTG had had KK. (Perhaps that is what he did have.)

However, I suspect that you may have gained extra bets from UTG by raising the flop if he had AA.

I am not sure whether raising the flop would have caused the SB to fold. He seemed quite happy to call 2 cold preflop, and so for all we know he may also have called 2 on the flop.

Overall though, I agree with you that I dont think that OP played this hand badly, as it would seem that you would only be likely to gain more bets if UTG specifically had AA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villain probably has KK and is going the maximum on the river no matter what the previous action. If he's doing that with AK, he's idiot enough to do it if we raised the flop. He could be doing it with AA, just not crediting us for the jack because we slowplayed but that's the only hand that you make less value from by playing the other streets harder. If we raise the flop, he's threebetting and we call, and he leads the safe turn. We raise, he calls. He'll still do the maximum on the river with KK.
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  #10  
Old 11-01-2006, 06:53 PM
00Snitch 00Snitch is offline
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Default Re: Slowplay somes goot, right?

i think i raise the turn.

if we are looking at this as getting the most in on each street... the flop is ok because you are more sure that you will get an over call. however on the turn, you are less likely to get an overcall. hence, i raise the turn and gaurantee the bet that sb would put in from utg. if you call the turn and sb folds that was a waste, and he is more likely to fold the turn than the folp.

also, while i kina agree with drmodem that posting this sort of hand is not *that* great. i dont think you can just write it off and say "you hardly ever flop quads, so dont worry about it". this situation would be the same if you fopped some other nuts/near nuts hand. i.e. nut flush, straight, boat or top set. i dont think the point of this discussion should be "how to get max value from quads", because you are right, you never flop quads, i guess its more of a "when to go for overcalls, when to value raise".

im rambling... in summary. raise the turn, you arnt missing any value by knocking sb out on the turn.
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