more donking around at microPLO

teh_minbet_pokr · #1 08-18-2007, 03:19 AM

reads: villain is unknown and has not been at the table very long but quickly doubled up on this hand...

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($9.20)
MP ($11.55)
CO ($8.85)
Button ($11.45)
Hero ($28.25)
BB ($11.30)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, CO calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, Hero completes, BB raises to $0.6, MP calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $2.4, MP calls $2.40, CO calls $2.40, Hero folds.

Turn: ($9.70) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets $8.3 (All-In), MP folds, CO calls $5.85 (All-In).

River: ($21.40) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $21.40

Results in white below: 
BB has Tc Qh Ks Ac (flush, ace high).

Outcome: BB wins $23.85. 

about 10-12 hand later this hand occurs;

PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.10 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($16.20)
BB ($7.70)
UTG ($10.70)
Hero ($34.65)
Button ($22.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $0.3, Hero calls $0.30, Button raises to $1.1, 2 folds, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.80.

Flop: ($2.65) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.9, Hero calls $1.90.

Turn: ($6.45) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($6.45) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5, Hero?

i dont know how i feel about this hand, preflop is meh...

on the flop im pretty sure i should be repotting(lead ever?) but i really dont like stacking off to QQ if/when he re-shoves but i also know he does this with air or a wrap enough that i feel sick about folding.

on the river my plan is to check call with the mindset that i can let him hang himself one more time if he is on a pure bluff or whiffed his draws, and he also may be donking out with AAxx. while also not giving away most of my stack to QQ or other overboats. so i feel like he is only calling a shove with hands that beat me.

also as played should i ever lead turn or riv?

anyways thoughts on all streets appreciated

chucky · #2 08-18-2007, 03:43 AM

First hand dont even complete. 2nd hand check raise flop. Middle set is only facing top set 10-15% of the time. Bet turn. You are not up against qqxx. Probably AAxx. maybe with a queen side card. Expect to see qjxx about 10% of time.
I miniraise to 10 here.

Sly_Fox · #3 08-18-2007, 07:50 AM

Afraid of getting coolered every time you flop middle set in Omaha is going to cost you a lot of money. C/r flop and lead turn next time. As played I agree with chucky a small river raise if good here.

teh_minbet_pokr · #4 08-18-2007, 02:54 PM

how often is c/r on the flop costing me action by scaring away an aggressive player with AAxx here(which i beleive makes up the majority of his range) who is going to shut down as soon as re pop him but may continue with the hand as long as he has position and the initiative?

i guess it sounded like i was only scared of getting coolered here but i was also concerned with how to get the most money out of hands that i have beat. so..assuming i c/r on the flop here 100% of the time and i should not be folding to repot...

my opinion is that AAxx folds to a c/r on the flop.

pure air definitely folds to c/r on flop.

55xx is a small possibility(only can see this being AA55) in which case flop c/r gets the money all in. small % of this scenario imo.

hands like QQKK, QQJ10, AKQQds have me killed on the flop and i cannot fold after i c/r so the money goes in very bad.

wrap hands like K10QJ AQ10K, etc with an aggressive player will either re shove the flop and leave me with a very difficult decision(i have to consider QQ) where my equity is good but not great or they flat call and have position on me for the remainder of the hand and also i have made my hand fairly transparent at this point so they can play their hand perfectly against me on the turn and flop (either bluffing the right scare cards or value betting made draws)

also as played i feel like checking the river can induce bets from the hands that i think or folding out on the flop(AAxx, air), that want to steal the pot or think they are value betting thin with a worse hand(bottom set, 2 pair).

but yes, i know this is a nonstandard line but seeing as we were both deep i thought i would mix it up? not saying this is the correct or optimal play, just telling you my thought process as the hand progressed.

having said that, i agree i should raise this riv like 90% of the time.

chucky · #5 08-18-2007, 03:35 PM

Don't check raise full pot if you want to keep draws/ AAxx in. If you raise to 4 or 5 dollars your opponent can not get allin with a draw but will call. On turn you can charge the draws when blank cards hit. A reason why people advocate check-raising full pot on flop is because OOP you dont want to spend your time guessing your opponents hand.