On Isolating and 3-Betting Light

[threads13]

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I imagine that you will keep the raises smaller with the high implied odds hands like PP's and SC's?

[/ QUOTE ]With low PPs and SC's I'm still limping behind. With any low cards you are generally going to have to hit big to win at a showdown, and if I'm going to have to hit big, might as well encourage more people in the pot.

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To reinterate, you are more likely to raise a loose limpers who go to far with worse hands than PP's and SC's. What sort of hands are you talking about here?

[reno expat]

Implied odds are nice, but, for me, they are only a very small consideration before the flop. In order for them to come into play I need my opponent to hit enough of a hand that he will commit all of his chips, plus I need to hit more. You don't get to stack your opponent every time you flop a monster. To me, the more important thing is to be able to maximize your ability to pick up what is already in the pot plus the call(s) that will be there when the flop comes.

[Jeff76]

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To reinterate, you are more likely to raise a loose limpers who go to far with worse hands than PP's and SC's. What sort of hands are you talking about here?

[/ QUOTE ]Not really "worse" hands. I tend to raise stuff like medium PPs like 88+ and high cards like KTs etc. These are hands that can easily make top pair or middle pair in position. Whereas KTs is normally a fold for me against a standard opponent and 88 is usually a limp behind kind of hand.

This is because I am going to need something against a calling station- if this were the call/check/fold type then I'll raise worse hands (from time to time).

[Jeff76]

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Implied odds are nice, but, for me, they are only a very small consideration before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]The problem I have with raising suited connectors over limpers is that it turns them into bluffing hands, when I think they are worth more than that. If you were guaranteed to never get re-raised after you raise, then really there's no loss, but the worst thing that can happen with your 45s is for you to raise and then someone comes in behind and picks up KK and 4bets you. If you'd just limped you'd have the odds to call (depending on his raise), but now that you raised the the pot is now so large in comparison to stacks that calling is spew.

Sure, how often does he pick up KK and bet you off? Not much- however, KK is EXACTLY the type of hand you want to be up against with 45s. If you take a line that guarantees you to never get to see a flop against KK then you won't get full value from your suited connectors.

[reno expat]

For every time I may stack someone who picks up QQ+ behind me I think I can pick up 5bb raising and getting called by the weak player who limped in front more than enough times to make up, plus the chance still exists to stack someone hitting a huge flop. Ultimately I'd mostly use this raise when presented with the chance to play a raised pot heads-up, with someone who is going to fold to 80+% of my flop bets. I know I could do this with some air and save my SCs for peeling cheap flops, but I like having the lead with my SCs when I hit, and having people put me on big cards. There are plenty of donks who will put you on AK and pay off whatever weird SC hand you made with their 2nd pair.

[Jeff76]

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I think I can pick up 5bb raising and getting called by the weak player who limped in front more than enough times to make up, plus the chance still exists to stack someone hitting a huge flop.

[/ QUOTE ]The problem here is that this was defined as a player who will makes loose calls post flop, so there's a good chance you are going to have to improve your 5 high to win.

[QTip]

Bravo Jeff!

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[relayerdave]

Yeah, op...great job. Very thought provoking....

[LearningCurve]

Really nice job, Jeff. Lots of excellent ideas and plenty to ponder. Thank you!

[reno expat]

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so there's a good chance you are going to have to improve your 5 high to win.

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bah...just double barrel it