Bottom set on on a very dry board, 4 players to the flop

[Rojosox]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($850)
UTG+1 ($5887)
MP1 ($4800)
MP2 ($5841)
Hero ($6319)
CO ($5000)
Button ($6016)
SB ($5321)
BB ($6645)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 3, 3.
[color=#666666]3 folds</font>, [color=#CC3333]MP2 raises to $200</font>, Hero calls $200, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, Button calls $200, [color=#666666]1 fold</font>, [color=#CC3333]BB raises to $650</font>, MP2 calls $450, Hero calls $450, Button calls $450.

Flop: ($2625) 8, 3, 4 [color=#0000FF](4 players)</font>
[color=#CC3333]BB bets $850</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls $850, [color=#CC3333]Button raises to $2000</font>, BB calls $1150, Hero ????

The initial raiser is Chunmin who folds on the flop, the button is ilvdnfl and William Hill is the the guy who raises to 650.

Action is back to me.... What do I do?

[DJ Sensei]

I would assume that BB is a fish and has a big pair here, based on his line so far. So it comes down to button. Because you only called the small lead, he can put you on a weaker range including many pocket pair floats or perhaps a straight draw (or at least your hand is at the top of it). If his read on BB leads him to think he can raise him off aces here, then he could make this play with a lighter range including more hands that you beat and some semibluffs. However, if he is aware that BB is a fish with an overpair, he wouldnt try and make him fold it, he'd raise for value with his higher set (or 43, but 43 is unlikely because of your holdings). So go with your read on Button's read of BB, assuming BB actually is a fish and isnt a tricky solid player.

[Post-Oak]

I would push all-in.

There is already $2625 in the pot before the flop. BB is betting 1/3 pot, you are calling, and then Button is raising $1150 into a $4325 pot. It is very possible that no sets are out there.

The action in this hand is very strange, both before and on the flop. It's hard to put people on hands here and the pot is huge. I would push all-in.

Here's why I think the action is so strange:

Preflop:
Why is the BB reraising so small here?? There's been a raise and two calls, and then reopens the action by putting in a smallish raise. It seems weird. I think a poorly played AA is more likely than 88.

Then the flop action is very strange. PFR bets 1/3 pot, and you simply cold call. Why? I would put in a raise here, even if it was a smallish one.

Then Button puts in a tiny raise into a huge pot. Why? Can he be sure you didn't call with 56s? This is what makes me think he may not be as strong as raising a bettor and caller might indicate. The initial bet was small, and his raise is tiny.

[Red Lion]

The button making a small raise into a huge pot suggests tremendous strength in my opinion. I am not sure if I could fold a set in this spot, but I would have but in a flop raise. Do you really think the button is making that raise with TT or JJ?

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
I would assume that BB is a fish and has a big pair here, based on his line so far. So it comes down to button. Because you only called the small lead, he can put you on a weaker range including many pocket pair floats or perhaps a straight draw (or at least your hand is at the top of it). If his read on BB leads him to think he can raise him off aces here, then he could make this play with a lighter range including more hands that you beat and some semibluffs. However, if he is aware that BB is a fish with an overpair, he wouldnt try and make him fold it, he'd raise for value with his higher set (or 43, but 43 is unlikely because of your holdings). So go with your read on Button's read of BB, assuming BB actually is a fish and isnt a tricky solid player.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is somewhat similiar to what I am thinking. I don't think Button is bluffing though. It's such a small bet into a big pot that he may be raising with a hand like TT. He want to "see where he's at". He doesn't want to fold to the small flop bet, but he doesn't want to lose to a hand like AK (a possible holding for BB). I agree that he may be putting Hero on a pocket pair which is not a set. This smells like JJ, TT, 99 type hand which is scared to put big money in but isn't ready to surrender this pot to a tiny bet.

After BB calls the flop raise, it seems like he probably does have AA. As soon as BB calls and you overcall, Button is done with the hand unless he spikes a two outer so I wouldn't worry about getting anything more from him. He will know JJ/TT/99 etc. is dead after you overcall, then show aggression on any later street. You don't want the turn to go check/check/check, so you may as well push.

I can't fold bottom set with this action. Slow playing is only going to result in Hero not getting paid, getting drawn out on, or having scare cards freeze the action. Just push here.

[Post-Oak]

[ QUOTE ]
The button making a small raise into a huge pot suggests tremendous strength in my opinion. I am not sure if I could fold a set in this spot, but I would have but in a flop raise. Do you really think the button is making that raise with TT or JJ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anytime someone raises a bettor and cold caller, especially given the preflop action, it does suggest strength. It is definitely possible that he has a set, but I think he could also have just a pair. That's why if he does have a set, I pay him off.

f he has a set, I think he would usually raise more because of Hero's flop call, since 56s is possible, he will not get more out of a one pair hand anyway, and he doesn't expect anyone to fold a set. Again, he could very well have a set but I see a strong possibility that he has a hand like TT, which I why I can't fold bottom set in this big pot.

[raptor517]

i dont see how you can even really consider folding a set in a RR pot here. its entirely probable that they have JJ-AA type hands. folding here is criminal imo.

[LBK]

Given the action I'm not folding a set on this flop. I go broke with that hand everytime. You're up against overpair too many times.

[Dustin D]

Cmon does anybody really fold a set with 115bbs in reraised pot. I'm assuming u ran into 88 cuz u posted this hand, but obv get it all in

[Rojosox]

Dustin,

Isn't it quite obvious that William Hill has AA/KK? Isn't it quite obvious that ilvndnfl knows that William has AA/KK? So therefore, what is he milk reraising with? Has to be something that has AA/KK beat? This isnt just I have a set shove.