3-betting ranges

[lxdx]

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Horrible 50/20 player limps. 56/28 raises. Coldcalled by a 55/10. You're in the cutoff. The Button is a solid-playing TAG. Blinds are both too loose and fairly aggressive players, but not as loose as the donks upfront. In the range of ~30% VPIP.


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What are you doing playing .5/1?

Are there really games like this at 30? How frequently?

[Dan BRIGHT]

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Horrible 50/20 player limps. 56/28 raises. Coldcalled by a 55/10. You're in the cutoff. The Button is a solid-playing TAG. Blinds are both too loose and fairly aggressive players, but not as loose as the donks upfront. In the range of ~30% VPIP.


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What are you doing playing .5/1?

Are there really games like this at 30? How frequently?

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check paerty poker. This isnt rare at all. You can see these players in the 50 games frequently and even the 100-200 games sometems.

[jason_t]

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Horrible 50/20 player limps. 56/28 raises. Coldcalled by a 55/10. You're in the cutoff. The Button is a solid-playing TAG. Blinds are both too loose and fairly aggressive players, but not as loose as the donks upfront. In the range of ~30% VPIP.


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What are you doing playing .5/1?

Are there really games like this at 30? How frequently?

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The OP asked this question because we were both in a 30/60 game yesterday where the lineup included three players with the listed stats.

[tom10167]

That's insane, gj.

There are a lot of not so good hands I'm likely to play here. I guess 76s+ there's no need to 3 bet it because the button is likely to fold here, but if you think he might call with 76s as well, I'd 3 bet any hand you intend on playing and be fully prepared for number four.

[steveyz]

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I think the suited aces below ATs are the most interesting hands in this spot. I'm really not sure what is the best thing to do with them.

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I'd lean towards 3-betting A9s-A8s, maybe A7s, in this spot although it's close. I think it might be worth it just to get TAG to possibly fold a bigger unsuited Ace. Also, depending on how passive the donks are postflop, you can take a free turn card. That free card can be very valueable as you will often flop a backdoor flush draw.

I'd either cold call or fold the smaller aces depending how just how aggressive the donks are postflop. The more aggro they are, they more I like folding.

[Josh W]

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Raise: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
Coldcall a bunch of others.

-DeathDonkey

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You should be more inclined to threebet ATo (and the like) and coldcall ATs (and the like).

Josh

[DcifrThs]

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Raise: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
Coldcall a bunch of others.

-DeathDonkey

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You should be more inclined to threebet ATo (and the like) and coldcall ATs (and the like).

Josh

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i would do the reverse....or at the very least easily 3 bet ATs...whether or not i cold call ...meh, i dont know. i think ATo is a hand you'd like to 3 bet for a few reasons but i think pot size and the ability to raise out the blinds rather than be the first one betting postflop (+the chance it could get capped which is terrible for ATo and not bad for ATs) warrants a not 3bet w/ ATo...i also recommend a not fold with that hand, so that leaves a call.

-Barron

[Josh W]

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Raise: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
Coldcall a bunch of others.

-DeathDonkey

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You should be more inclined to threebet ATo (and the like) and coldcall ATs (and the like).

Josh

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i would do the reverse....or at the very least easily 3 bet ATs...whether or not i cold call ...meh, i dont know. i think ATo is a hand you'd like to 3 bet for a few reasons but i think pot size and the ability to raise out the blinds rather than be the first one betting postflop (+the chance it could get capped which is terrible for ATo and not bad for ATs) warrants a not 3bet w/ ATo...i also recommend a not fold with that hand, so that leaves a call.

-Barron

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I think it's a reasonable assumption that the pot size cannot be predicted. That is, I don't think you can say three-betting in this spot will lead to a bigger (or smaller) preflop pot.

Pot size therefore cannot enter your decision making. However, number of opponents is predictable (i.e. threebetting is guaranteeing you equal or fewer opponents, colling is guaranteeing equal or more opponents).

Because ATo plays poorly multiway, eliminating opponents should be a chief concern.

Being in position with ATo in a capped pot vs 3 guys who play over half their hands is not a "terrible" spot.

Josh

[DcifrThs]

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Raise: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
Coldcall a bunch of others.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be more inclined to threebet ATo (and the like) and coldcall ATs (and the like).

Josh

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i would do the reverse....or at the very least easily 3 bet ATs...whether or not i cold call ...meh, i dont know. i think ATo is a hand you'd like to 3 bet for a few reasons but i think pot size and the ability to raise out the blinds rather than be the first one betting postflop (+the chance it could get capped which is terrible for ATo and not bad for ATs) warrants a not 3bet w/ ATo...i also recommend a not fold with that hand, so that leaves a call.

-Barron

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I think it's a reasonable assumption that the pot size cannot be predicted. That is, I don't think you can say three-betting in this spot will lead to a bigger (or smaller) preflop pot.

Pot size therefore cannot enter your decision making. However, number of opponents is predictable (i.e. threebetting is guaranteeing you equal or fewer opponents, colling is guaranteeing equal or more opponents).

Because ATo plays poorly multiway, eliminating opponents should be a chief concern.

Being in position with ATo in a capped pot vs 3 guys who play over half their hands is not a "terrible" spot.

Josh

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rereading the action it seems that 3betting w/ ATo is preferable for the reasons you mentioned.

calling w/ ATs though i dont know about...also, while pot size can't be predicted, it can certainly be considered. for the most part, in spots like these vs. 3 retards, i'd like to get as many bets in pf w/ a hand like ATs even if it comes down to just the 4 of us.

Barron

[Josh W]

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Raise: 99+, AJo+, ATs+, KQs.
Coldcall a bunch of others.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

You should be more inclined to threebet ATo (and the like) and coldcall ATs (and the like).

Josh

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i would do the reverse....or at the very least easily 3 bet ATs...whether or not i cold call ...meh, i dont know. i think ATo is a hand you'd like to 3 bet for a few reasons but i think pot size and the ability to raise out the blinds rather than be the first one betting postflop (+the chance it could get capped which is terrible for ATo and not bad for ATs) warrants a not 3bet w/ ATo...i also recommend a not fold with that hand, so that leaves a call.

-Barron

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I think it's a reasonable assumption that the pot size cannot be predicted. That is, I don't think you can say three-betting in this spot will lead to a bigger (or smaller) preflop pot.

Pot size therefore cannot enter your decision making. However, number of opponents is predictable (i.e. threebetting is guaranteeing you equal or fewer opponents, colling is guaranteeing equal or more opponents).

Because ATo plays poorly multiway, eliminating opponents should be a chief concern.

Being in position with ATo in a capped pot vs 3 guys who play over half their hands is not a "terrible" spot.

Josh

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rereading the action it seems that 3betting w/ ATo is preferable for the reasons you mentioned.

calling w/ ATs though i dont know about...also, while pot size can't be predicted, it can certainly be considered. for the most part, in spots like these vs. 3 retards, i'd like to get as many bets in pf w/ a hand like ATs even if it comes down to just the 4 of us.

Barron

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I agree with what you say here. I guess my point was DeathDonkey was saying he'd threebet ATs and AJo and call with lots others. I'd DEFINITELY threebet ATs here (and not doing so would be a noticable mistake, imo).

Hmmm, I'm strugging to say what I'm trying to say, let me try to quantify it. I believe:

EV (Calling ATo) + EV (3-betting ATs) is less than
EV (Calling ATs) + EV (3-betting ATo).

I think AT (suited or otherwise) should be threebet. Perhaps a hand like KJo vs KJs is a turning point (threebet KJo, call KJs).

Blah blah blah

Josh