TT river check-call

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First orbit.

Ultimate Bet 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, Button calls, UTG folds.

River: (7.16 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.16 BB

[philnewall]

There's more value in a river bet.

[shpanko]

Against unknowns I don't like to bet/fold (which is your only other option) so I like your line here a lot. nice hand.

[RustyBrooks]

[ QUOTE ]
There's more value in a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

What would an opponent call with that we beat? (smaller pocket pair maybe?) What would he fold that beats us? Unless you can bet/fold I don't think I like a bet on the river. For me this is a standard check-to-induce-bluff-and-then-call spot. If he bets I expect to lose a good percentage of the time to a J or an 8 but this costs the same as bet-folding and gets me to a showdown. If I'm ahead I really don't think most opponents are calling a river bet.

[RustyBrooks]

On a related note, I've been trying my hardest to stay out of hands with unknowns recently. My standard procedure is to open up 10 windows 30-60 minutes before I intend to play, get the auto-import going and then come back later. I use a tool that mines the pokertracker database for the tables that are open and gives me some stats (average pot size, average vpip, average pfr, avg # of hands I have on opponents and a list of opponent types (via autorating)). This is not only REALLY handy for table selection, but also this means that I have 50-100 hands on some players and generally at least a dozen hands on some of the others. Since I'm chasing people in my fish list there is usually at least one terrible player that I have 300+ hands on.

(This is just a response to not wanting to bet/fold an unknown, which I agree with. If he's not unknown your action is much clearer, like I will bet/fold against passive players, I will bet for value against calling stations, I will check-call aggressive players, etc)

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
There's more value in a river bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. Bet/fold this baby all day long.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Against unknowns I don't like to make money

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

this is a pretty bad check/call IMO. throw a bet in like you have the nuts, this isn't an easy bluff. bluffs happen when they're really not sure you could have much and there's a scare card and they had some non-showdownable reason to be in there. he's got a piece of this board and he thinks he can beat AK by calling but why raise mid pair when AK folds and AA calls?

[philnewall]

What makes you think he has an 8 or J? What bluffs from busted draws are you inducing on the river? Thar be value over yonder hills.

[lxdx]

[ QUOTE ]
What makes you think he has an 8 or J?

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't.
[ QUOTE ]
What bluffs from busted draws are you inducing on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

From busted pair draws. And set draws. This board is unimpressive. When I check to “induce a bluff”, this opponent will bet a lot of hands not as bluffs, but because he thinks he has the best hand. There isn’t a lot of pure air he makes it to showdown with here after cold calling preflop (so low rags are very unlikely). I get bets from any ace most of the time, any king a fair amount, definitely from A4/A6, Q10 sometimes, 99/77/55 a lot; and the majority of these hands fold to a bet.

I am not checking to induce a bluff, but to indicate false weakness. And the average (unknown) SSSH player pounces on that far too fast.

[ejay]

i think that this is pretty close. I dont mind the cc because some opponents will take one last stab at the pot and you can pick that off.
If you do bet it has to be a bf.