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  #11  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:47 PM
moorobot moorobot is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

If you are using self-contradictory in the sense of 'seemingly contradictory but nonetheless possibly true' I agree. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #12  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:52 PM
Borodog Borodog is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

No, I meant in the self-contradictory sense of self-contradictory.

In the same post where you condescendingly call the claim that self-interested rent seekers will always seek rents "pure assertion", you (correctly) ask how we are supposed to get self-interested politicians to constrain themselves from handing out rents.
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  #13  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:55 PM
moorobot moorobot is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

By making it not in there self-interest to hand out rents, by changing the rules of the game and hence the incentive structure. One necessary, although not necessarily sufficient, condition of doing so is campaign finance reform.

BTW-look up self-contradictory. I correctly identified one of the meanings of the term.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2007, 11:59 PM
Borodog Borodog is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

[ QUOTE ]
By making it not in there self-interest to hand out rents, by changing the rules of the game and hence the incentive structure. One necessary, although not necessarily sufficient, condition of doing so is campaign finance reform

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't this exactly the sort of thing you were scoffing at Nate about?

"How in the world do we make this happen? Who enforces it? Essentially, how do we institutionalize it?"

Every time we have had "campaign finance reform" in the past it has really turned out to actually be "incumbant protection."

In fact, every time you here Congress talking about "reform" you can pretty much assume that you are about to be [censored].
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  #15  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:05 AM
moorobot moorobot is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

I wasn't scoffing at Nate that was a serious question and am hoping for a serious answer.

Politicians do favor 'incumbent protection' but not all reforms work towards that; and even if that was true in the U.S. it isn't true worldwide...many systems are far less favorable to incumbents than the U.S. system simply because the rules of the game are far different.
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  #16  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:05 AM
Borodog Borodog is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

[ QUOTE ]
BTW-look up self-contradictory. I correctly identified one of the meanings of the term.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, but that's a dumb definition. That would be seemingly self contradictory, not self contradictory.
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  #17  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:07 AM
Borodog Borodog is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't scoffing at Nate that was a serious question and am hoping for a serious answer.


[/ QUOTE ]

Ok. I was reading a tone that wasn't there. My apologies.
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  #18  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:15 AM
tolbiny tolbiny is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

[ QUOTE ]
2) Campaign finance reform and similar policies: Libertarians say they oppose mercantilism, corporate subsidies to companies, etc. However, the only realistic way for all of this nonsense is to make it so that politicians are not dependent on the donations of the wealthy for career viability; they are out of a job if they don't do what specific wealthy people/groups want them to. Yet, libertarians tend to oppose campaign finance reform and related policies. To me this smacks of dishonesty; if they really cared that much about ending the system of private reward, public risk that mercantilism (etc.) bring in, they would have to advocate large changes in campaign finance rules and advertising.


[/ QUOTE ]

Campaign finance reforms can only be reimplemented by those who have already been elected. Do you expect them to intentionally rewrite the laws so its easier for their opponents to win? Its a catch 22, if campaign finance reform is necessary then those who could possibly author them can't be trusted to author them, so we need laws to get good people into office to write laws allowing good people to get into office.
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  #19  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:25 AM
moorobot moorobot is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

Yet, rules that make it difficult for incumbents to be re-elected have in fact been implemented in many countries.

In fact, the U.S. incumbent re-election rate is an outlier amongst democracies...in almost all other counties it is far, far lower.
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  #20  
Old 11-08-2007, 01:09 AM
clownassassin clownassassin is offline
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Default Re: Libertarianism in non-ideal theory

2) Campaign finance reform and similar policies: Libertarians say they oppose mercantilism, corporate subsidies to companies, etc. However, the only realistic way for all of this nonsense is to make it so that politicians are not dependent on the donations of the wealthy for career viability; they are out of a job if they don't do what specific wealthy people/groups want them to. Yet, libertarians tend to oppose campaign finance reform and related policies. To me this smacks of dishonesty; if they really cared that much about ending the system of private reward, public risk that mercantilism (etc.) bring in, they would have to advocate large changes in campaign finance rules and advertising.


If the US Govt. budget was $0 and they did not have the power to meddle in the private sector, how much money do you think corporations or individuals would donate to politicians' campaign funds? The right answer is $0 or a whole lot less than current contributions.

The only way to stop government overspending and "ending the system of private reward, public risk that mercantilism (etc.) bring in" is to take away the money and power from politicians. Campaign finance reform will never be more than an item of rhetoric during campaign debates with out drastically reducing the size and scope of government.
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