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  #1  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:36 AM
iMsoLucky0 iMsoLucky0 is offline
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Default I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

This is a concept I've been thinking about a ton recently and reading this thread I saw these two posts which confirm my suspicions that I am not alone.

[ QUOTE ]
I call but would be in the mildly to moderately surprised camp if I was good.

[/ QUOTE ]
-Adanthar

[ QUOTE ]
I...

1) Don't see how you can fold
2) Don't see how he's showing you a hand you're beating

Somehow that makes sense to me...

[/ QUOTE ]
-s33w33d


I know that these kinds of thoughts go through my head fairly often when playing and it seems almost invariably when I think them I'll end up calling and being shown a winner. I guess it comes down to your instincts and listening to them. My problem is that I'm more apt to listen to my instincts when they say "he wouldn't do this with a hand that beats you, call" than when they say "he wouldn't do this with a hand you beat, fold", and the real trouble happens when my brain says both of these things at once.

So I guess my question is how do we combat this problem? Is there some way to focus in on your instincts and make sure you are listening to them for the right reasons? I know that perfect poker isn't possible and that your instincts can't be right all the time, but how do we balance our instincts with our brain and not spew? These probably aren't the right questions to ask but I'm sure this is a concept that plagues all poker players at one time or another so let's see where this discussion goes...
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  #2  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:39 AM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

I just call and smoke a bowl if I'm beat
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  #3  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:55 AM
shaundeeb shaundeeb is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

I love when hands like that fold, as I am getting ready to make a crying call I life my two cards inbetween my right index finger and middle finger while using my left hand to throw in the chips attempting to instafold when they table thier hand. Then I move on and laugh at how bad they are regardless of them winning the hand
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  #4  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:57 AM
iMsoLucky0 iMsoLucky0 is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

Did you type that out in spanish and use an online translator shaun?
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  #5  
Old 11-27-2007, 04:58 AM
ZJ123 ZJ123 is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

[ QUOTE ]
Did you type that out in spanish and use an online translator shaun?

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahah
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  #6  
Old 11-27-2007, 05:12 AM
WarDekar WarDekar is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

The best is once in a blue moon when you're actually ahead and they're just uber-donk.

But then you wonder who's more retarded you or them, maybe they were pulling the sickest bluff ever but we were so retarded we still called but happened to win.

It's mind-boggling.

EDIT: There was a time I did something like this as a bluff. It wasn't actually as a bluff, it was more of a "[censored] THIS [censored] I GIVE UP" and I shoved on the river and dude folded getting some ridiculous price.

He was probably having one of those "I know I have to beat" moments and actually managed to fold, boy was he wrong LOL

Guess my point is, that's why we always call, because SOMETIMES we win [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Plus, it's always good to feel "right" even if you lose, "I knew I was beat!"
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  #7  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:28 PM
BarryLyndon BarryLyndon is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

[ QUOTE ]
I love when hands like that fold, as I am getting ready to make a crying call I life my two cards inbetween my right index finger and middle finger while using my left hand to throw in the chips attempting to instafold when they table thier hand. Then I move on and laugh at how bad they are regardless of them winning the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell is this?
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  #8  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:38 PM
Eagles Eagles is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

Jordan,
I agree. There are a lot of spots where I see people on the forum advocate going broke based on hand strength. Often times what needs to be considered is that there are some general "rules" people will make i.e. don't fold sets, don't fold KK pf etc... so they will never make these laydowns even though there certainly are spots were it is correct. As a result you often see hands posted where good players ask about making tough folds and the response is typically LOL YOU HAVE xyz CALLLLLLLLLL. Anyways the point I'm making is although its difficult there certainly are spots you can fold very strong hands to certain opponents although typically not good ones.

Now I think Bond's hand is a bad example because we call the river not really expecting to be good very often. Its just we need to be good enough of the time. So even though Scotty has us beat a lot we might be good 1/8 times or w/e making a call good. However when we make this call we do so knowing we will have the best hand 1/8 times or w/e so most of the time calling we will be disappointed but that does not mean the call is bad.
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  #9  
Old 11-27-2007, 01:49 PM
LuckyLloyd LuckyLloyd is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I love when hands like that fold, as I am getting ready to make a crying call I life my two cards inbetween my right index finger and middle finger while using my left hand to throw in the chips attempting to instafold when they table thier hand. Then I move on and laugh at how bad they are regardless of them winning the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell is this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Deebish.
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  #10  
Old 11-27-2007, 02:08 PM
Todd Terry Todd Terry is offline
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Default Re: I know I\'m beat... I call?!?

This is an area where I think my results have gotten worse as my analysis has gotten better. When I first started playing, unless I was getting laid a ridiculous price, I basically played under the rule, if I think I'm beat, I fold. When I called in violation of that rule, I was usually shown a winner. Now, I attempt to quantify the strength of my belief I'm beat, and if it's less than the pot odds, make a crying call. It seems like I invariably get shown a winner. IMO, there's a balance to be struck between trusting your "instincts" (which I try to base on objective evidence rather than "feelings") while at the same time realizing that you're probably not right as often as you think you are and allowing this margin of error to influene your decisions to call on the river. The correct balance is somewhere between Phil Hellmuth and Daniel Negreanu.

I agree with Eagles that there seems to be an overemphasis on absolute rather than relative hand strength in many of the hands discussed on this form.
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