Teach me to play craps

[asterion]

Craps can be a fun game, especially at a full table with everyone winning. However, the volatility can really kill you, especially with large odds bets. My general rule for most casino games--depends on the game of course--is to buy in with at least 10x what I plan to bet. With craps (which I rarely play due to insufficient bankroll to deal with such volatility) I think I'd rather buy-in with a 50x minimum and maybe even 100x or more.

The following are sucker bets:
All proposition (one-roll) bets. This includes the Horn and the individual bets (2, 3, 11, and 12) that make up the Horn, Any Seven, C&E (2, 3, or 11), the Field bet, and so on.
Big 6 and Big 8. Same bet as place bet on 6 or 8 but pays 1:1, so the house edge is higher. (Are the Big 6/8 actually prop bets? I've never seen anyone dumb enough to bet it.)
Hardways. (I admit I make this bet from time to time, but for table min only.)

As for the number bets, placing 6 and 8 are the only really reasonable bets, with a house edge of 1.52%. Placing 5 and 9 are much worse, with a house edge of 4.0%. As for 4 and 10, they should always be bought (with 5% commission) and not placed, as the house edges are 4.76% vs. 6.7%. Of course, if you can find a casino or a table that offers free buy bets on 4 and 10, those become somewhat better bets due to the lower house edge. Exact effects will depend on the rule and the amount bet. Look at the craps section of http://www.wizardofodds.com for more info.

There's nothing inherently wrong with come bets. They're the same as a pass line bet on the come-out roll and can be played the same. If you really want to get a lot of money on the table, you can make several come bets and then take odds on those. That's not that bad a strategy overall, assuming your bankroll can take it.

And ignore at least half of what NajdorfDefense said. Dice control is crap (no pun intended), the dice have no memory so it doesn't matter when you start making come bets, the shooter of course doesn't matter, and don't buy the 6 and 8 but place the 6 and 8 instead. Your decision on whether or not to press a bet, of course.

So, I say, make the pass line bet. Put as much as you can (or are comfortable with) behind the line as an odds bet. If you want to get a little more action on the table, make place bets on 6 and/or 8 in increments of $6 (getting this wrong will make you look foolish and/or inexperienced and don't worry if you don't have exact change as the dealers will take care of it). If you want, make come bets and take the odds on those points as well. Avoid all other bets.

[duecesful]

so now what is the difference between placing numbers and buying numbers? Whats the 5% commision thing?

Sorry guys I'm at work and cant pull up any gambling sites to learn(exept this one)

[Homer]

expert nit strategy:

put the smallest amount of monies allowed on the "don't pass" portion of the table when the hockey puck is black side up. (don't bet on the "pass" line. everyone will hate you for betting "against" the table, but you can just remind them that you are saving $46 per $100,000 wagered this way. they will understand.)

after the roller rolls if the casino people don't take your monies or give you more monies you can put some extra monies behind the original bet (however much it takes for the swings to be fun, this extra bet has a 0% house advantage). a true nit skips this step.

when everybody else cheers, you lose monies. when everybody else boos, you rake in the monies.

repeat until sufficiently drunk and/or bored and proceed to strip club.

[Homer]

[ QUOTE ]
Simple, you'll go broke slowest taking full odds on pass/don't come/don't.
enjoy

[/ QUOTE ]

you'll go broke slowest betting the minimum on don't pass/don't come and taking no odds whatsoever.

[duecesful]

So seriously. What is your normal stategy when playing. Pass line w/some odds behind. then take 6&8? Howe does this stategy sound?

[asterion]

A place bet does not pay true odds. For 4/10 it's 9:5; for 5/9 it's 7:5; and for 6/8 it's 7:6. True odds on those numbers are 2:1, 3:2, and 6:5 respectively. The house edge on buy bets are all the same, 4.76%. However, except for 4/10, the place bet is better because of the effect of the commission. So, let's say you buy the 4 for $100. The commission is 5%, so if you win, you get $200 less the commission, so the dealer gives you $195. However, if you place the 4 and win, you get $180. So that's why you always buy the 4 and 10.

As for the others, same deal. Buying 5/9 for $100 wins $145 while placing 5/9 wins $140. So buying 5/9 is marginally better, but there are other considerations I'll get into in a moment. Buying 6/8 for $100 wins $115 while placing 6/8 for $100 would win $116.67, though of course you'd actually bet $102 to win $119.

Remember, though, that you have to pay the commission up front, so win or lose, you're out that 5%. That can be enough to make buying the 5/9 unattractive. If you're lucky, you can find a table that only charges commission on wins, and that makes buying 5/9 much more attractive as that lowers the house edge to 2.00%, versus the 4.00% house edge of the place bet. There's a similar effect on 4/10, lowering the house edge to 1.67% and making it a bet reasonably close to placing 6/8.

If you can get access to Wikipedia, that site has got a pretty good craps article.

[asterion]

[ QUOTE ]
So seriously. What is your normal stategy when playing. Pass line w/some odds behind. then take 6&8? Howe does this stategy sound?

[/ QUOTE ]As I suggested earlier, make a pass line bet. Make as large an odds bet as you can (or are comfortable with--I have seen tables in Indian casinos that offer 100x odds.) If you want to get a little more action, you can make a place bet on 6/8. If the commission is only taken on wins, you can make buy bets on 4/10 and 5/9. Otherwise, don't play those at all. If you're getting bored waiting for the point to be over when you get to the table, you can make a come bet and play it like you would a pass line bet. If you want to get more money on the table, making come bets and taking the odds is a good way of doing it.

[mhcmarty]

[ QUOTE ]
"6 and 8 - Pay 7 to 5. $5 gets you $7"

Corection: 6 and 8 - Pay 6 to 5. $5 gets you $6

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you -- Typo

[duecesful]

Another question: do you take more odds on certain points?

[asterion]

Looking at the websites of some of the Indian casinos I play at (not too often, as they're all now about 4 hours of driving away from me and I'm a poor grad student) one claims to offer free buy on 4 and 10. I'm not sure if that indicates that the buy is free if you lose or if the buy is truly commission free. Also, I don't know what effect that would have on the house edge, but I can guess that it'd be a lot. Anyone want to do the math?