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  #1  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:33 AM
roggles roggles is offline
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Posts: 545
Default LO8 - Two similar hands with nut low and high draw

As always, this is in a HORSE rotation, and I have no converter. No real reads on anyone.

Did I put in too much action in these hands, risking to get quartered, or is the aggression level good?

Full Tilt Poker Game #4344153951: Table Glendale - $3/$6 - Limit Omaha H/L - 7:46:31 ET - 2007/11/30
Seat 1: LayItDown Clown ($69.50)
Seat 4: Oireas ($76), is sitting out
Seat 6: roggles ($155.50)
Seat 7: pokermedic203 ($61)
LayItDown Clown posts the small blind of $1.50
roggles posts the big blind of $3
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to roggles [Ad 8h 3c 9c]
pokermedic203 raises to $6
LayItDown Clown calls $4.50
roggles calls $3
*** FLOP *** [2s 6s 8d]
LayItDown Clown checks
roggles bets $3
pokermedic203 raises to $6
LayItDown Clown calls $6
roggles raises to $9
pokermedic203 calls $3
LayItDown Clown raises to $12
roggles calls $3
pokermedic203 calls $3
*** TURN *** [2s 6s 8d] [8s]
LayItDown Clown bets $6
roggles raises to $12
pokermedic203 folds
LayItDown Clown calls $6
*** RIVER *** [2s 6s 8d 8s] [5c]
Oireas has returned
LayItDown Clown bets $6
roggles raises to $12
LayItDown Clown calls $6

Full Tilt Poker Game #4344283488: Table Glendale - $3/$6 - Limit Omaha H/L - 8:21:05 ET - 2007/11/30
Seat 2: AnalysisIsKey ($191)
Seat 3: steve322 ($110.75)
Seat 4: Oireas ($121.50)
Seat 5: hurly726 ($115)
Seat 6: roggles ($190.25)
Seat 7: pokermedic203 ($87.05)
Seat 8: LayItDown Clown ($53.25)
pokermedic203 posts the small blind of $1.50
LayItDown Clown has 5 seconds left to act
LayItDown Clown posts the big blind of $3
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to roggles [2d Ac 8d 6c]
AnalysisIsKey calls $3
steve322 folds
Oireas calls $3
hurly726 folds
roggles raises to $6
pokermedic203 calls $4.50
LayItDown Clown calls $3
AnalysisIsKey calls $3
Oireas calls $3
*** FLOP *** [4c 5d 6h]
pokermedic203 bets $3
LayItDown Clown folds
AnalysisIsKey calls $3
Oireas calls $3
roggles has 15 seconds left to act
roggles raises to $6
pokermedic203 calls $3
AnalysisIsKey calls $3
Oireas calls $3
*** TURN *** [4c 5d 6h] [4d]
pokermedic203 bets $6
AnalysisIsKey has 15 seconds left to act
AnalysisIsKey folds
Oireas folds
roggles has 15 seconds left to act
roggles raises to $12
pokermedic203 raises to $18
roggles calls $6
*** RIVER *** [4c 5d 6h 4d] [Th]
pokermedic203 bets $6
roggles calls $6
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  #2  
Old 11-30-2007, 11:47 AM
Buzz Buzz is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: L.A.
Posts: 3,633
Default Re: LO8 - Two similar hands with nut low and high draw

Hi Roggles -

Hand #1 - Fine. Just one little suggestion: I'd just call the raise on the second betting round rather than re-raise. Not a big deal, but I think you make your holding a bit less obvious.

Your hand is a pulling hand before the flop, and still a pulling hand after the flop. It turns into a pushing hand after the turn. I like betting the flop once, but not jamming.

Hand #2 - Again fine except this time maybe you tip your hand too soon by raising pre-flop. A good player would tend to read you fairly easily. Possibly as a result of that, you don't have any customers on the 3rd and 4th betting rounds.

And that's too bad because your hand is a pulling hand all the way (meaning you want to pull customers in rather than push opponents out).

Buzz
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2007, 09:45 PM
SapphireMoon SapphireMoon is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 14
Default Re: LO8 - Two similar hands with nut low and high draw

Hi - Hereís my two cents. -

Hmm... this turned into an essay [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]


Hand 1: - Warm and Fuzzy about this flop [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

The other key point in this hand for me is that it is shorthanded. I like the aggression on flop since this is Limit and not PLO8 - limited chances to protect hand - you don't want to give A4 a shot at low if another 3 hits. Also, you hit a pair of 8s though minuscule given the texture of flop - any added benefit is a plus. Given the flop action the only worry is that another A3 is out there Ė but more than likely the monster draws on flop.

Preflop raiser may have AA2x and protecting his aces. The turn is a toughy - Flush and possible full house out there. I would still be aggressive though - as I already mentioned - it's limit and it's a shorthanded situation. The trip 8s might be good for high and I suspect preflop raiser has AA2x or A245 in the hole or big pocket pair. So pound away. Preflop raiser, laid down on turn so mission accomplished. Other guy just calls the turn raise but bets river so I suppose the river raise is warranted. If he had A3 and flush/full house he would have pounded you on turn after other guy folded. But just calling here makes more sense Ė you don't have nut nut and the low outdraw has been prevented.

Hand 2: [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] Grit your teeth kind of flop. Ė You over-rated A2

Raising with A2 89(iffy) though the Ace was suited preflop is a personal choice. All you have is A2 and have to hit the flush. 89 is not spectacular as backup - you only have the 8 as backup low if the deuce is counterfeited on flop. And the 89 is often the dummy end of a st8 if the flop is highish. Also an Ace with 9 kicker if flop is ambiguous with a lone Ace on flop really doesnít leave you in a good position. Also with A2 and iffy cards you donít want people out of the hand Ė you possibly got rid of the blinds ($21 each contribution if they make it to the river)

So the flop is a made st8 - A2 is safe but.... I wouldn't be raising this flop. I would just call with nut low and allow the pot to build up Ė you have half of the pot already if there arenít other A2s out there. There is nothing that can counterfeit the low (no need to protect in this case but getting quartered here is a real worry) so let the st8 (if it exists) do the raising protecting of his/her hand.

People get too excited with A2 in the hole - there are 4 possible A2s out there - this flop is a recipe for getting quartered.

So why raise on flop when you are drawing to nothing for high - other than the wheel which is already beat on flop? You surprisingly didnít scare the folks in the middle with the flop raise but on turn there was no way they were going to call this turn with you raising willy nilly. All the weak lows will now fold, any st8s will bow out and thus the size of the pot is now greatly diminished. Iím surprised that the guys in the middle called that flop period much less for a raise -- so an unraised flop would more than likely have allowed crying calls to river. - that $48 missing from pot due to flop raise with squat.

Now for the turn, you should be making calls period. Itís now HU and I highly suspect you are only going to get one quarter of the pot. Other guy has A2 for sure, the st8 (protected by you with the flop raise) or a full house or just plain trips to go with his A2. All you have is A2 and a 8 high flush draw that is beaten by a full house. This is a situation that you pray that other guy has high only.
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