Two Plus Two Newer Archives  

Go Back   Two Plus Two Newer Archives > PL/NL Texas Hold'em > Micro Stakes

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:34 AM
gregorio gregorio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 958
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

[ QUOTE ]


How does the wetness of the board matter here? Villain has a PFR of 2, that pretty much = AA, KK, QQ and AK...

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering these stats, I don't like the 3bet PF either. You are basically turning your hand into a bluff PF, and once he calls, there is almost no way he doesn't have QQ+ or AK here.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:03 AM
manbearpig manbearpig is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 480
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

Is 3 betting JJ not almost mandatory against a button raise? The BB came along for the ride and the original raiser folded preflop. So it ended up being BvB.

Which makes the bet on the flop a pretty standard continuation bet. There have been a couple of people who dont like the lead here. I would like to hear more of why some think it is a bad idea.

I do think he called me light but I can't figure out what hand he would just shove that beats me. Why would someone play a K or a 9 like that? Especially since I have been super aggro and betting into him consistently.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:25 AM
gregorio gregorio is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 958
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

3betting JJ is never manditory. JJ is a great hand, but unlike AA or KK, when you 3bet JJ you turn it into a bluff, since you have to fold to a shove.

What can happen when you 3bet JJ from SB:
a) Button folds most of there range and you win a small pot
b) Button shoves, and you lose 12BB and don't have a chance to hit a set which would probably win you a stack vs Button's shoving range
c) Button calls and you are in a bloated pot OOP and have to hope they fold to your cbet

If you call
a) You can hit your set and stack them
b) If they are opening light (and would have taken it down with a 3bet PF), you can c/r or float a ton of flops and win their cbet
c) You can c/f on a scarey board and lose 4BB instead of 12BB

If you are really uncomfortable playing OOP, then you can 3bet, but when you do that you are turning JJ into a bluff, and you turn JJ into a hand that is only slighty better than T9s. When you 3bet JJ or T9s, you often will win a small pot with either one PF; you sometimes will win with a cbet on the flop; you will rarely improve on the flop, and if your cbet gets called, at least you know your T9 is no good.

With JJ, you sometime will have a strong hand like an overpair even when you don't improve, and T9 is never going to be a strong hand if you miss the flop, so obviously after you 3bet and get called, you'd much rather have JJ than T9. And there are times for other factors you might want to 3bet JJ, but in a vaccuum, I am calling with JJ in SB more often than I am 3betting it. A lot of posters seem to prefer 3betting JJ more than calling with it, but I don't, and I certainly don't think the 3bet is manditory for the reasons above.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:37 AM
crunchi crunchi is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 206
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

calling PF is just fine considering villain is NEVER calling your 3bet with worse.

In regards to why betting the flop sucks, well, what worse hands call your cbet?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:39 AM
PugsMcGee PugsMcGee is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Center of the Universe
Posts: 390
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

the C bet was fine

but u have to fold to the huge overbet...obvious fold imo
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:55 AM
Altreg Altreg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 75
Default Re: JJ facing HUGE overbet

[ QUOTE ]
3betting JJ is never manditory. JJ is a great hand, but unlike AA or KK, when you 3bet JJ you turn it into a bluff, since you have to fold to a shove.

What can happen when you 3bet JJ from SB:
a) Button folds most of there range and you win a small pot
b) Button shoves, and you lose 12BB and don't have a chance to hit a set which would probably win you a stack vs Button's shoving range
c) Button calls and you are in a bloated pot OOP and have to hope they fold to your cbet

If you call
a) You can hit your set and stack them
b) If they are opening light (and would have taken it down with a 3bet PF), you can c/r or float a ton of flops and win their cbet
c) You can c/f on a scarey board and lose 4BB instead of 12BB

If you are really uncomfortable playing OOP, then you can 3bet, but when you do that you are turning JJ into a bluff, and you turn JJ into a hand that is only slighty better than T9s. When you 3bet JJ or T9s, you often will win a small pot with either one PF; you sometimes will win with a cbet on the flop; you will rarely improve on the flop, and if your cbet gets called, at least you know your T9 is no good.

With JJ, you sometime will have a strong hand like an overpair even when you don't improve, and T9 is never going to be a strong hand if you miss the flop, so obviously after you 3bet and get called, you'd much rather have JJ than T9. And there are times for other factors you might want to 3bet JJ, but in a vaccuum, I am calling with JJ in SB more often than I am 3betting it. A lot of posters seem to prefer 3betting JJ more than calling with it, but I don't, and I certainly don't think the 3bet is manditory for the reasons above.

[/ QUOTE ]

its all ok and right ,but you forgot one thing,original poster told ,that he "abusing" this villain with 3betting,so i think 3bet pf its clearly better option
And as i told b4,easy fold on flop
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.