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  #161  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:40 AM
MuresanForMVP MuresanForMVP is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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I agree with you in principle, but dude, this is Texas we're talking about, and as long as those statutes are still on the books then he's gonna be free and clear.

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I can see that there is some difficulty in determining whether or not this is legally murder, but ethically this is pretty clear cut.

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Yup,this is what I was saying.
  #162  
Old 11-29-2007, 10:49 AM
MuresanForMVP MuresanForMVP is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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A real american hero... Bernhard Goetz.

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Man we just love throwing that term "hero" around dont we? Bernard Goetz was a basketcase loser. Here's a quote: the intent was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible." Some more: [ QUOTE ]
Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun. Cabey, who was briefly standing prior to the shooting, was sitting on the subway bench during all attempted shots. In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

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The guy was bailed out when the idiot muggers were interviewed by a magazine and admitted that they were going to mug him, thus he acted to prevent a commission of a felony and was within his legal rights. They say nothing and he goes away for a long time.


"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero
  #163  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:00 AM
starbird starbird is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

"Sir, if you leave your house, you are likely to be shot by the responding officers."
  #164  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:12 AM
BeerMoney BeerMoney is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

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Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.
  #165  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:16 AM
NoahSD NoahSD is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

He fires two shots really quickly... I guess one for each guy. There's then a long pause and he fires another shot. You don't hear him reloading or anything (he just like [censored] it or whatever it's called) before the third shot. It doesn't make sense for him to wait so long before taking his third shot if someone's running at him.

Then the guy explains to the 911 guy that one of them is lying (presumably dead) on his lawn and the other ran away. Sounds like he either shot a guy who was already down or shot a guy who was running away.
  #166  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:26 AM
jws43yale jws43yale is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

My house was broken into for the third time this year (twice while we were sleeping). I don't feel entirely safe and have considered getting licensed for handguns in CT. I was born and raised in Texas and unfortunately I would probably get charged with a crime if I killed someone who had broken in and they were unarmed. I am not sure I agree with the guys actions, but people alwyas go, "You would shoot them without telling them to stop first." My response probably, b/c they will go for their weapon if they have one. Asking them to stop and giving them an opportunity to attack puts me in danger. They may not have a weapon, but I can't be certain of that and as a result can't hesitate.
  #167  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:30 AM
hime hime is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

I'm not sure why, but you guys are giving off the impression that the person who answers the phone at 911 is a cop, which is not the case.
  #168  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:34 AM
MuresanForMVP MuresanForMVP is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

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Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.

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One guy was paid like 50 bucks by a magazine and went off running his mouth. I think this "all scumbags deserve to die" view on the board is very disturbing, and I'm FAR FAR FAR away from a liberal who believes in strict gun control.

Yes, there is a difference between "give me 5 dollars" and "hey,can I have 5 dollars", but is that difference enough to warrant blasting away at somebody? Not in my mind.


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Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

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Did I say this anywhere? Typical BS response. They were low-life criminals, Goetz was a homicidal nut-job who just HAPPENED to act within his legal limits. That's even debatable when taking this into account [ QUOTE ]
Preemptive self-defense, cases in which one kills another on suspicion that the victim might eventually become dangerous, is considered criminal, no matter how likely it is that one was right.

[/ QUOTE ] Btw, all 4 of the would-be muggers lived, did you even read the Wiki article?


The teenagers used the screwdrivers to steal quarters from video game machines, Goetz never once said they brandished the screwdrivers, he admitted to not even knowing they had them.

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I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right.

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Exactly, he happened to be right. What if the kid just wanted 5 bucks? Goetz was a loser nutjob who pulled the trigger first, asked questions later, and the stars aligned in order for him to be acquitted. He was lucky for a number of reasons 1). They happened to have screwdrivers on them (which he admitted to not knowing) 2). One admitted they were going to mug him 3). His case came in the midst of a crime epidemic in New York City, where the public was fed up and much more likely to side with him, despite Goetz using excessive force given what had occurred up to that point in the incident 4). He only had 5 rounds in his gun. If he has a pistol with a 10 round magazine or even a 6 round revolver then he executes Cabey, and likely gets murder. He has more rounds and its reasonable that he goes around and offs each and every one of them. I mean just look at the quotes from this guy:


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Goetz, pretending not to hear them, asked Canty, "What did you say?" Canty calmly repeated, "Give me five dollars." Goetz admitted to police that he "snapped" and that his intention at that point was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible."

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Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun.

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In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

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The world does not need more people like Bernard Goetz.
  #169  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:37 AM
NHFunkii NHFunkii is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

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Valuing consumer electronics over people's lives is exactly the sort of thing we need to be locking people up for.

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I disagree here.

I hate to be racist or value one person over another, but these 2 burglars arent exactly model citizens. They are a leech on society, and they are certainly going to rob someone else. Who knows if they are armed, and if they will harm someone else while robbing them?

I really can't blame someone for killing 2 thieves.

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i used to think you seemed like an ok guy. this post is horrific.

your point is not that they posed an imminent threat and the guy had to defend himself. your point is that they were bad people so who cares if someone shoots them. just wow.

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I probably phrased my point poorly, blah.

I was trying to get at that these guys could very likely harm other people when robbing another house. Maybe they think the house is empty, go inside, and are startled by a resident, and they end up shooting them.

EDIT: WTF I didnt say "they are bad people, who cares if someone shoots them".

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you don't see how those are exactly the same thing? bad people, as in likely to cause harm in the future?
it's not that you didn't phrase your point well, it's that your point is ridiculous. 'who knows if they are armed, or if they will hurt someone else next time' does not logically lead to 'there's nothing wrong with killing them'

also, lol at your use of the phrase "leech on society"
that's basically the definition of a poker player. I'm not saying poker players are equivalent to thieves, just that once we start getting into the 'they are not exactly model citizens' argument, it's a bit of a slippery slope
  #170  
Old 11-29-2007, 11:42 AM
MuresanForMVP MuresanForMVP is offline
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Default Re: Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.
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