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  #11  
Old 11-26-2007, 04:56 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

good points michael.

garland often seems to post very conservatively in my opinion which is why i was very surprised to see him endorse the cap. i guess also the propensity for everyone to raise the turn today when they pick up a flush draw might also come into play here more than i thought, since pj could be putting snowball on that and 3betting a big pocket pair to charge him.

i guess this kind of hand does depend a lot on table image and reads and so on.
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  #12  
Old 11-26-2007, 05:04 PM
pohuist pohuist is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.
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  #13  
Old 11-26-2007, 05:14 PM
BadBigBabar BadBigBabar is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

hm yea i didn't even notice pf; i fold this as well.
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  #14  
Old 11-26-2007, 05:21 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.
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  #15  
Old 11-26-2007, 05:45 PM
stoxtrader stoxtrader is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to see the long form of "figuring out the math"
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  #16  
Old 11-26-2007, 05:59 PM
ssmallz ssmallz is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
Not really. Think about it from PJ's prospective: That turn 6 was pretty innocuous (there's no way it should improve any hand on the turn, right?). So he'll probably think snowball was making a move at it on the turn with some mediocre hand trying to get PJ off the best hand, while charging the drawer.

You have a hidden gem of hand. Easy 4-bet and lead non-scary river. And despite what stox says, I'm probably folding 63o to a raise pre-flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a protected pot and pj knows this. there is no way he thinks you're bluffing when you c/r the field on the turn. His 3 bet is a sign of strenth. Would he do this w/AA or KK? Possibly but maybe not, would he do it w/TT or JJ? Definatly. PJs range should be heavily weighted toward JJ or TT. I call here and call the river if it doesn't counterfit my hand. 4 betting is just silly here. Call down and don't like it
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  #17  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:03 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

Snowball didn't say this in the OP, but he was in the BB. So he didn't call 2 cold.

Nevertheless, 63o is a turbo-muck for me in this spot from the BB against a fairly TAGgish open raiser like joker. Also, I don't want Snowball defending his BB with hands like this because I can't put him on it and that might make my play tougher in later streets when trying to read his hand.
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  #18  
Old 11-26-2007, 06:07 PM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Private Joker raises. 4 callers. I call with 63o, because stox says to call with any 2 here, and because I am drinking a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless I am mistaken, stox recomends calling a raise out of BB for 1 more bet with 6 opponents. That is very different than calling 2 cold with 5. And he also says to continue only if you flop 2 pair or better. So, it must be a corona.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but c'mon, its still a 6-3o. Even if you hit it, the five other players are drawing to a flush, with two cards to come. I even figured out the math here, it just ain't worth it, even against a donk like Joker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to see the long form of "figuring out the math"

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Stox, my math and statistical skills atrophied since my college and grad school days of thirty years ago. However, in your brilliant work "Winning in Tough Holdem Games" (of which I purchased a copy the day it was available)you prepared an analysis, of defending with a 6-3o. I must review this once I return home to check the results for this hand under various limits to the best of my recollection.

Anyway, it still seems to me if you are up against Joker in this situation, you are getting your ass kicked in the end with your two pair of 6-3o.
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  #19  
Old 11-26-2007, 08:00 PM
Chris Daddy Cool Chris Daddy Cool is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.
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  #20  
Old 11-26-2007, 08:05 PM
surfdoc surfdoc is offline
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Default Re: 63o - hand vs Private Joker

[ QUOTE ]
garland, 4-betting this turn barring any specific factors thats been going on is throwing money away.

also the range you give is ridiculous for joker to 3-bet this turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. The only thing that we aren't told is if Joker thinks Snowball is on tilt but the multiway turn CR is so strong that I doubt it matters.
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