stealing against people who never fold

[rafiki]

I ran into a very strange situation yesterday in a 16$ double shootout. The softest group of players I have ever played against. got down to 4 handed, I maybe have 2400 in chips, blinds are 50/100. Leading up to that, in the smaller blind ranges, I quickly learned that no matter what I did, they would never fold preflop. 3 villains, all 60/5 type players. To compound the crazyness, they'd call all in with top pair any kicker, or even a draw to the 3rd nut (flush for example). You'd think that would be a dream come true, but I just couldn't make a hand. Stealing and continuation bets became a total waste of time. Ultimately I got into a position where I had to start shoving in the hopes of doubling through one of them, and lost a race to get knocked out.

the question I have is how you beat 2-3 players like this when you can't flop a hand. Maybe the answer is "you don't". I just kept bleeding chips with 4BB raises. Limping was often met with raises from the big stack. Limp-raising would have worked, cept I never got a good hand to do it with. And I couldn't really bluff preflop because these guys were literally calling with Ax, any pair, any 2 broadway, and 78s etc... Before it got to me just shoving, I figured I just needed to make hands I could value bet against them, knowing they were just going to pay me off so often. But the ratio of blinds paid for vs chips gained in a hand never worked out.

Anyone run into something like this before ? I really can't believe I lost. But I couldn't figure out another way to win, lol.

[JoseGonzlez]

Probably not much you can do.

Most likely just play tight til the blinds are higher than you can push spots where you have similar range hands or marginally the best hand.

The only thing you might be doing wrong is not adjusting your 4 handed ranges, any two broad is not bad 4 handed.

But yeah the easy answer is play tight, wait til the blimds are higher and shove spots so they cant push you off hands.

[rafiki]

well my 4 handed range was wide for sure. I think ultimately trying to play ABC poker is what cost me. But not raising AhQh in a 4 handed game seems criminal. And yet when I'd miss, and they'd call the continuation bet as well, there goes some 800 chips. And any aspirations of pushing the flop was equally pointless. Ah well, I guess in poker you have to make a hand at some point. Can't just win on being sneaky preflop.

[JARID]

You need to widen your range and play your hands for value. Don't worry about bluffing, as its a waste of time. Open raise KT etc not to "steal" blinds, but because your opponents will call and pay you off with worse. Sounds like you just ran cold.

[Bakes]

[ QUOTE ]
You need to widen your range and play your hands for value. Don't worry about bluffing, as its a waste of time. Open raise KT etc not to "steal" blinds, but because your opponents will call and pay you off with worse. Sounds like you just ran cold.

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[sledghammer]

Raise less preflop, 2.5 or a min raise. There is a big point in the NL Theory and practice book about raising smaller preflop against calling stations.

[Bakes]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise less preflop, 2.5 or a min raise. There is a big point in the NL Theory and practice book about raising smaller preflop against calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

if 3x will get the pot HU and minraise will let the whole crew get down, you'd better raise 3x

[Xanthro]

Tighten up pre-flop, make your standard raise with KK, watch the flop come J72 rainbow, then get paid off when the nit pushes J9.

If someone is always going to call you, then you CAN'T bluff or make continuation bets.

[sledghammer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise less preflop, 2.5 or a min raise. There is a big point in the NL Theory and practice book about raising smaller preflop against calling stations.

[/ QUOTE ]

if 3x will get the pot HU and minraise will let the whole crew get down, you'd better raise 3x

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Full ring and/or deeper stacked, yes, but this is 4 handed with 25bb.

[johnnyrocket]

you limp more and keep hoping for a flop, u can cut back on ur preflop raises some to stop donating