Is this play +ev? Very situational button limp

[LimpFoldPro]

Recently, to some success, I've started button limping in a dead money pot, when everyone else folds and it's back to the button and the blinds. Please remember this is incredibly situational and I realize most money is made from the button and it should generally be raised, but hear me out.

If you have a hand like 8T suited or even something better like TJ suited, a go big or go home hand, I will limp it on the button hoping to invoke a raise from one of the blinds who may have a stronger hand like AK or some sort of mid-range pockets but are out of position on me.

If they don't raise, oh well, it's still generally a dead money hand and a battle for the blinds that I'm still in position for and stand a decent chance of out flopping them.

I will also only do this if the blinds in question have bigger stacks and if they are players capable of making a pay-off.

The reason I limp is because I don't want to raise with my potentially big money hand when I can have position on the blinds in a raised pot where they believe they are ahead since they initiated action on my limp.

In the last few cases I've done this with the marginal/multi-way hands like 8d Td and got a raise out of Ax and up against big stacks.

I've gotten a little lucky in the fact that I've flopped OESD's and the like, but each time got huge river pay offs out of them if they hit also.

I just don't think the bigger pay offs would have happened if I initially raised on the button for the dead blind money and they perhaps fold, or play the hand timidly because I showed aggression preflop.

Is this massively -ev? It's working good so far.

[cky7048]

In the long run that can't possibly be positive EV. By limping with marginal hands you miss the opportunity to either A. take the blinds then or B. Get called and either hit a flop or fire a continuation bet. The preflop raise gives you another opportunity at taking down the pot as you can't with just a limp.

[btmagnetw]

so you think its good when they raise Ax out of the blinds when you have JTs? don't you think its even better if you raised, took the initiative, and left yourself with more ways to win on the flop?

[Bakes]

This is mentioned in NLTAP...and is not really a bad play if the blinds are going to make egregious postflop errors. Your goal is to win stacks, not blinds after all.

[JOHNY CA$H]

I think the problem is they'll have a calling hand much more often then they'll have a raising hand. You'll really need to get paid off to compensate for this.

[Kimbell175113]

[ QUOTE ]
This is mentioned in NLTAP...and is not really a bad play if the blinds are going to make egregious postflop errors. Your goal is to win stacks, not blinds after all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes.

If your opponents
a) will fold often to PF raises, AND
b) play bad enough postflop, so bad that you don't want them to fold pre,
then this is a good play.

[Joey2Cards]

There is also the theory that if you raise and get called preflop with a hand like T8s, you will actually make more money when you hit your straights and your trips and what-have-yous because your opponents will be less likely to put you on it.

All in all, as long as you can play solidly post-flop, both plays are reasonable and you should use both. Variation in this sort of situation is the key to success in games against decent players

[angry hobo]

i would argue that it is very situational. if your at a table with people who play tight pf and make big post flop errors, you dont want their blinds you want their stacks. the whole merit from playing suited connectors is their implied odds. you want to flop a big draw or hand and stack them as much as possible. if you can raise and create a good SPR for your hand, and sweetining the pot then it is correct. Playing suited connectors is +EV in shorthanded pots only because of its implied odds combined with the opportunity of steal post flop. I would call about 60% and raise about 40% in a normal game when first in LP depending on the strength of the blinds