Donkbet on turn, TPGK

[One Outer]

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I think that folding because we don't know where we're at is giving the other players way too much credit

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Agreed! That's one of the reasons I posted the hand; I want to fold but I'm pretty sure it's wrong.

[chesspain]

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You're neglecting the possibility that we're ahead right now. Maybe it's just a Commerce thing, but I see people donk top pair weak kicker on the turn all the time - especially when the board gets scary.

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I'm not neglecting the possibility that we're ahead. I'm just significantly minimizing the possibility--and realizing that if we are ahead of both players we might be needing to dodge nearly half of the deck on the river if we are up against hands like J9/JT and Axs (of spades). And the read on the donker was "plays lots of hands;" not "plays any two cards," which is what one would be playing if he is to have a hand like J4/J3/J2 etc.

FWIW, I hate the idea of folding, and in the heat of battle I would probably call. But I don't think it's +EV in the long run.

[One Outer]

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I hate the idea of folding, and in the heat of battle I would probably call. But I don't think it's +EV in the long run.

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Thank you. Agreed.

[colonpowell]

I would call but not like it, I think he has 2 pair.

These are the hands I hate the most, ones I seem to be sucked into with top pair. I get the sinking feeling I'm beat but I've seen too much crap bet here that I can't fold.

[Hyperrrprank]

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You're neglecting the possibility that we're ahead right now. Maybe it's just a Commerce thing, but I see people donk top pair weak kicker on the turn all the time - especially when the board gets scary. I suppose this is very read dependant, but I think we're giving up value by mucking the turn just because of a donk bet. Also, calling 2 cold on the flop means very little in the live games I play. Top pair with ANY kicker does that all day long.

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Commerce is my home base as well, and I know exactly the kind of weirdo bets that you're talking about. The people that make those bets are pretty easy to spot after even a few minutes at the table though.

If I was sitting at a table with these type of players, I'd STILL put us behind here 75% of the time. Add in that we can't be sure which of our outs are clean and I think this is a fold.

Of course, it took me 5 minutes of thinking about it to realize that. In the heat of battle I probably call and fold to a raise.

[One Outer]

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Of course, it took me 5 minutes of thinking about it to realize that.

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Well played, sir.

[Scarmiglio]

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I'm not neglecting the possibility that we're ahead. I'm just significantly minimizing the possibility--and realizing that if we are ahead of both players we might be needing to dodge nearly half of the deck on the river if we are up against hands like J9/JT and Axs (of spades). And the read on the donker was "plays lots of hands;" not "plays any two cards," which is what one would be playing if he is to have a hand like J4/J3/J2 etc.

FWIW, I hate the idea of folding, and in the heat of battle I would probably call. But I don't think it's +EV in the long run.

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I completely agree with this.

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Commerce is my home base as well, and I know exactly the kind of weirdo bets that you're talking about. The people that make those bets are pretty easy to spot after even a few minutes at the table though.

If I was sitting at a table with these type of players, I'd STILL put us behind here 75% of the time. Add in that we can't be sure which of our outs are clean and I think this is a fold.

Of course, it took me 5 minutes of thinking about it to realize that. In the heat of battle I probably call and fold to a raise.

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And this.

It's a tough spot to be in. FWIW One Outer - you post some great hands.

[One Outer]

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FWIW One Outer - you post some great hands.

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thank you. I try hard to not embarrass myself in the forums.