KK in a Tight Spot

[Logun]

Hi, first time posting in the limit forum so I hope this is the correct place.

My thought process is very simple - see a cheap show down.

If I correctly raise preflop I am 100% positive all limpers call. This inflates the pot and allows my opponents to chase any draws post flop correctly.

I agree I can 3 bet the flop however I wanted to stick to the plan and that was to see a cheap show down.

villains are readless


Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, MP3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Button folds, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

[HollywoodDB]

raise preflop 100% of the time. You have a huge preflop advantage.

[mikeca]

I am not an expert here, but I think your thought process is fundamentally flawed. You wanted to see a cheap showdown, but you folded on the end and never saw the showdown.

Seeing a cheap showdown is not what you should be worrying about with KK, especially preflop. You should be trying to get as much money in the pot as possible at this point. Raising preflop not only gets more money in the pot, it improves your odds of winning by getting some really weak hands out. More people will tend to call with “stronger hands” that you better dominate. You don’t care about people calling with KQ but you want to get out the guy with 53.

Now raising doesn’t guarantee you will win, far from it. The SB is poor position. You cannot fold many people out. But you are going to win this hand between 40-60% of the time. If you can get 6 players to call a bet that you will win ~40-60% of the time, you should be making that bet every time without thinking twice.

I'm not a online player and these online games are really agressive, but I would definitely raise preflop. Lead the flop and 3 bet after the raise.

[BigBadBabar]

your thought process is just wrong. you don't want to see a cheap showdown. you want to bet and raise until someone plays back at you, and win a giant pot.

raise pf. bet and 3bet the flop, or betcall the flop and checkraise the turn.

[Logun]

yah you're right (obv) I played like a puss

[BigBadBabar]

if by any chance the money is an issue then move down to a limit where it's not -- no shame in that, many of us have done it before and a lot of people do when they're starting out

[Logun]

sadly I'm not just starting out, but I am just getting back into limit as opposed to NL where the mindset is a bit different.
but yah - money isn't an issue.

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
...as opposed to NL where the mindset is a bit different.
but yah - money isn't an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the limit mindset, is find edges, big or small, and push them.

[Jeffage]

You have to be high not to raise this preflop - you are missing out on WAY too much value not charging the field another bet with the best hand.

As played, you might as well go for a checkraise on the flop to clear the field since your bet will offer immediate 8-1 odds on a draw heavy field. Ok, as played...why did the 9 slow you down on the turn? What do you fear? Bet again.

I don't even know what to say about the river since the rest is so weird.

Jeff

[Logun]

The river I have to be beaten on at least by 2 pair as MP1 calls down but then c/r the river. This is a strong strong move to make on a seemingly nonsensical card.

I was trying to go for pot control throughout the hand, but yah I agree raise raise and raise some more.