I spew with A high 4 handed

Oink · #1 06-07-2007, 05:02 PM

Same villain as the other hand, 45/25. No real reads but now I was pretty sure he was bad. In the mean time I had sucked out on him a few times and he is whining in the chat.

Ok, so when he 3-bets preflop I think lowish pp or more likely a sc.

Is the pot big enough for me to try to get it HU vs him on this flop, or is it to big of a parlay to fold the other two and still hold up against the LAG?

(Oh and did I use the word parlay correctly? I finally found out what it means the other day [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, Hero raises, UTG calls, CO calls, SB 3-bets, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (12SB, 4 players)
SB bets, Hero raises

WildJack · #2 06-07-2007, 05:22 PM

I'm out here. I don't think you are good enough here often enough to make your line worthwhile.

You will get called by any K, any 8, any flush draw and any overpair to the 8.

I think it is just to expensive to test the waters here. There will be better spots for sure.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #3 06-07-2007, 05:27 PM

I like your flop play. I would just check it preflop.

jstill · #4 06-07-2007, 05:30 PM

i never do this, not saying its right.

2 days ago was the first time id done anything like this in a long long time, i raised AJs on T99 flop w/ a bdfd vs a bb donk with a cold caller and the sb behind me. I did not get my desired free card however.

i ck preflop as well

what is our turn plan when we raise the flop here assuming he calls and then cks a blank to us?

nickg1532 · #5 06-07-2007, 05:34 PM

i definitely check pf.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #6 06-07-2007, 05:41 PM

"i never do this, not saying its right."

I barely ever do this either, but the villains preflop line screams BS to me and this is the kind of flop that misses everybody quite often so even though theres 2 people behind the hero I would raise the flop cuz AT plays very well vs BS and the others arent that likely have anything on this particular board. The pot is also very large by my standards which also supports making this play.

"2 days ago was the first time id done anything like this in a long long time, i raised AJs on T99 flop w/ a bdfd vs a bb donk with a cold caller and the sb behind me. I did not get my desired free card however."

Given that somebody coldcalled you preflop and the SB semi-coldcalled you also, and the BB is not as likely to have BS, I dont like your flop raise. Although this board is paired, it is still the type of board to hit many coldcalling type hands. I actually would fold the flop in your hand example.

"i ck preflop as well"

FWIW: Against a limper and a SB complete I would raise here close to every time with ATo. Against 2 limpers and a SB complete I almost always call. This is my basic strategy with this hand. I cannot prove if I am playing this situation optimally.

"what is our turn plan when we raise the flop here assuming he calls and then cks a blank to us?"

If I get this pot HU against the lag, I am showing this hand down 100% of the time. That means If I bet the turn UI, it must be becuz I dont mind calling a check/raise. If I dont wanna face a check/raise then I would check the turn and call all rivers.

Oink · #7 06-07-2007, 05:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i definitely check pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh! No one would care if I raised AJo here right? I think I am pushing an eq edge and since its a RIO hand I want the money in preflop.

nickg1532 · #8 06-07-2007, 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i definitely check pf.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh! No one would care if I raised AJo here right? I think I am pushing an eq edge and since its a RIO hand I want the money in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i'm not saying it's horrible, or even bad, but if it's good, it's barely good, and it's just something i never do. (i probably raise if i'm suited, though).

Heisenb3rg · #9 06-07-2007, 06:19 PM

PF I like the raise, but I have no way of knowing if it's correct. I was under the impression the reason why you dont build pots with Axo (high) out of position in multiway pots is because you are playing "defense" with your top pair hands and don't want to build a big pot so you can get away from the hands, and people draw incorrectly against your pair? This is sklansky's full ring logic for AQo type hands with 6 limpers and your in the BB. Im not a fan of this logic, but I have no way of knowing if it's true.. I think 4 way it doesn't fully apply here because you should hit a pair and have it hold up enough for building a pot to be worth it. You are very likely to be the one "dominating" other pairs.
Unfortunatly , you need to be checking a lot of bad flops after raising, giving a lot of information about your hand.

I'd be more inclined to raise KTs type hands because you can get folds on ace rag flops, as well as you can take the initiative on many more flops because you'll flop more draws. Generally draws as a PFR OOP are much more disguised.

Flop, without a read on agression I fold. If he's bluffy and likes to take stabs at pots, raising is absolutly the correct play. 45/25 is kind of in between the two types. I've seen good post flop skills from players like this, as well as super agro bluffy....

The thing what's good is you are almost never drawing dead to him... From a rational opponent it's a pair or a flush draw. From a bluffy opponent it's a whole range of air.. but almost never a king. If you get cold-called or 3-bet by another player you have to give the hand up immediatly.

This isn't a spew [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]