A Modern Reading List for High School?

[DLizzle]

also, you both seemed to insult me without answering any of the questions I asked. I am actually interested in the answers, they weren't rhetorical. I realize I may be missing something here.

[SoloAJ]

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not joking. i gained almost nothing from reading it, including both entertainment and educational benefits. There were no literary tools, no philosophical ideas, and not even many memorable life lessons that I couldn't have received from another source, and I certainly would've enjoyed almost anything more. sorry for disappointing.

i did well in english, I read and still read all kinds of books frequently, and reading comprehension was always one of my strengths. I had no trouble understanding the plays. Just thought I would mention that stuff since you seem to think that I might be stupid/uneducated or something.

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I'll try to answer, but I know they're both probably better equipped and experienced to properly answer. Anyway, firstly, I think your opening sentence is incorrect. What do you mean by literary tools? Whatever it is, I'm guessing Shakespeare has more of them than any of the other books you're referencing. I am guessing this isn't what you mean, but in terms of a literary glossary, Shax covers a lot of the words inside it. Similes, metaphors, juxtaposition, etc. And they are RICH examples of literary devices as well. I mean, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is by no means the greatest line of Shax, and yet it sounds cliche to even say it because of how much acclaim it gets. Compared to most of his writing though, that line is actually somewhat meh.

As for the life lessons, I don't know I would say "lessons." But Shakespeare is essentially breathing still today despite being incredibly old. Shakespeare's stories ARE about life, and they still hold true.

Also, it was mentioned that Shakespeare is bad because there is no point to it, but that you'd rather read The Odyssey. Both texts share something incredibly important in terms of English, our culture, and our literature: they're referenced all over the place.

To say you would want the Odyssey for some sort of background doesn't make a great deal of sense when you consider that Shakespeare has worked its way into our minds just as much as The Odyssey has at this point.

[SoloAJ]

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Shakespeare is one thing I think they could do without. Not many students like it and I don't really see the relevance. If you must, please Hamlet or Macbeth. Greek mythology is more interesting if you want something old. The Odyssey with O Brother where Art Thou is a nice idea.

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This was what I meant with my last comment there. You don't see the relevance of Shakespeare? It probably has permeated our culture more than greek mythology at this point. Granted, there are a lot of crossovers and such, but to say that Shakespeare holds no relevance anymore means that you are, as you said, missing something.

Like I said, I feel Cole is wayyyyy better equipped to respond, and he can feel free to correct me if he disagrees with what I'm saying. But, whatever, I took my shot at giving you some input.

[Rick Nebiolo]

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BTW, this was a public high school.

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Yeah, Classical High School in Providence R.I. I think every one of you guys from the downstairs suite at camp URI I met my sophomore (your junior) year went there. Not your typical high school by any means, even then. I'm curious, does Classical still take the best and brightest? Or has is been dumbed down like most other things?

Anyway, you and others mentioned Tim O'Brien's "The Things They Carried". I read GOING AFTER CACCIATO about a million years ago. One of the best Vietnam War books yet it hardly even gets listed on Amazon. Sad. I'll pick up "The Things They Carried" first chance I get.

"Before Sunset" is ready to go on my DVD. I've had some whiskey tonight. Had I not told you would you have noticed?

~ Rick

[suppasonic]

I read R and G are dead my senior year AP English class. Could be a tad over the head of the 10th graders, but I loved it. Really funny, really witty, and very intriguing. I also loved the dystopia novels; I read Brave New World in 10th and most kids liked it. Pretty easy to understand as well.

You should include a race issue book, one of my faves is A Lesson before Dying.


I read The Things They Carried and I really liked it.

However, my favorite book I read in HS was "Jayber Crow" by Wendell Berry.

[DLizzle]

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Shakespeare is one thing I think they could do without. Not many students like it and I don't really see the relevance. If you must, please Hamlet or Macbeth. Greek mythology is more interesting if you want something old. The Odyssey with O Brother where Art Thou is a nice idea.

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This was what I meant with my last comment there. You don't see the relevance of Shakespeare? It probably has permeated our culture more than greek mythology at this point. Granted, there are a lot of crossovers and such, but to say that Shakespeare holds no relevance anymore means that you are, as you said, missing something.

Like I said, I feel Cole is wayyyyy better equipped to respond, and he can feel free to correct me if he disagrees with what I'm saying. But, whatever, I took my shot at giving you some input.

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Basically my point is that, in general, high school students do not like reading, discussing, or analyzing Shakespeare's writing. That's just how it is. Hopefully this is pretty clear. So unless the writing quality is extremely superior to anything else, it's a pretty bad idea to teach it to students because they will respond much better to something they like. I fail to see how it could be that much more educational that you would risk most of the students being uninterested. Enlighten me? Personally I find greek mythology to be very entertaining and I think in general most students would, which is why I the comments comparing Shakespeare to greek mythology.

Disagree with my personal, probably ignorant opinion on Shakespeare but what I have said in this post is basically indisputable in my mind. Before someone says it, no, you can't make them like it by being a fantastic teacher. sorry.

[SoloAJ]

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I read R and G are dead my senior year AP English class. Could be a tad over the head of the 10th graders, but I loved it. Really funny, really witty, and very intriguing.

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I really hope you've seen the movie so you can give me some basis of comparison. I think the movie would be a little over their heads at parts, but not really too much. I'd just have to pause it and be like "You see what they're doing here with the coin and probability is..."

If the book is a little more dense than the movie, indeed, it might be trouble. I don't know.

[SoloAJ]

DLizzle,

My personal experience was that most students didn't like greek mythology any more likely than they liked Shakespeare. I think we're both operating on too small of a sample size to really discuss it too much further.

I would argue the writing IS that much more superior and that you can teach it and have the kids interested. It is all in the approach. I would say that being a fantastic teacher is pretty imperative to getting a majority of a class interested in ol Billy. But beyond that, the approach is important. If it is taught in a way that they can understand what is going on, and then literary devices are a bonus. All the better.

Remember, part of the idea behind it is to introduce them to it. It isn't to expect them to walk around Senior year quoting Titus Andronicus.

[DLizzle]

i still disagree on making them like it, but you make good points. good luck.

[John Cole]

Rick,

I agree completely with Going after Cacciato. It, along with Dispatches, are my favorites. If you haven't read it, you should also try Paco's Story. It also seems O'Brien's novel is out of print; that's a shame.

Classical still offers a "classical degree," but few students choose the option. (I think only three students received one last year.) Nevertheless, it still attracts and produces good students.