Slansky- Preflop raises should differ based on the hand

[octop]

I am about halfway thru Slansky's new no limit book. I am looking for comments on his suggestion that preflop raises should differ based on the type of hand you have. I primarily play cash games with avg stacks of 100 bb. I make my raises based on the number of limpers, my position and how the table has been playing.
Sometime there is some drunken tard who will call a 200 dollar raise preflop (I play 5/10 NL) when I have aces so I won't mess around rasing with suited garbage in a game like that. Sometimes the table is tight as hell and 35 will get a table full of folds(time to leave) However I do not see any benefit in raisng more with aces etc. I play many people who will raise to 20-30 all night, Then all of the sudden they will make it 60 to go (always with aces or kings). I would rather have a hand like 55 here than when they make it 30 because I know they have Aces, will never fold them and I will stack them when I hit the 5. BY the same token when they raise to 30 and it comes 8 high I will raise there continueation bet with my 55 b/c they probably missed their AK. It seems to me they are making their hands transparent, without the benefit of dramatically cutting down on implied odds.
There are rare times when a game is so juicy my raises will not always be the same for 2 reasons:
1) The players are so bad raisng for deception is useless. So why would I raise with a 78s etc when nobody will ever fold anything preflop or on the flop?
2) There is a drunken tard who will call a huge overbet preflop( sometimes even an all in). In this case Ill completly overbet my monsters because instead of getting 5 callers for 50 I will get 1 tard to call 300 (or more) preflop.

I would love it if Slansky responded to this post, as he is a big reason I have made money in this game. I will say that I have not finished the book yet, so maybe upon its completion I will feel differnetly, but I appreciate anyones thoughs on the manner.

[DonkBluffer]

So you are asking: I am looking for comments on his suggestion that preflop raises should differ based on the type of hand you have. (your post isn't that clear IMO [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

I'm half way through too, and they (sklanksy and ed miller) suggest you raise more with some hands (small pairs if I recall correctly?) and less with others. On the other hand, they say somewhere that preflop stealing and preflop in general is not that important, because that is only a small part of the potential potsize in the end.

Doesn't that contradict eachother?

edit: In the sizing your preflop raises chapter they discuss: 1. deep stack raise sizing - big raises make big pots, and small raises make small pots
2. make bigger value raises against straightforward players - easier to read
3. make bigger raises against players who fold too much postflop, and 4. the opposite of 3

[Paragon]

I believe there exists an optimal amount to raise preflop for every scenario, and that this amount changes based on numerous factors, including your hole cards. Raising the same amount is simple and effective, as it does not reveal any extra information. However, I highly doubt it maximizes EV.

Obviously, the question is then what factors should determine the size of your raise, and maybe some people can discuss that here. I just wanted to defend that raising different amounts has the potential to be better than uniform raises.

In my opinion, it applies to post flop situations in poker as well. Always betting the same proportion of the pot, or continue betting a fixed percentage of the time are simple and effective strategies, but certainly can't be the optimal decision in each spot since they do not account for all the variables involved.

[octop]

Sorry if I wasnt perfectly clear.Basically I wanna know thought on basing preflp raises on your hole cards.

I'm half way through too, and they (sklanksy and ed miller) suggest you raise more with some hands (small pairs if I recall correctly?) and less with others. On the other hand, they say somewhere that preflop stealing and preflop in general is not that important, because that is only a small part of the potential potsize in the end.

They didnt specifically say small pairs, but did use a hand with 44 as an example.


3. make bigger raises against players who fold too much postflop, and 4. the opposite of 3

I agree with this but it has nothing to do with hole cards.

[pfkaok]

[ QUOTE ]
3. make bigger raises against players who fold too much postflop, and 4. the opposite of 3

I agree with this but it has nothing to do with hole cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually it has a whole lot to do w/ what cards you have vs. this type of player. You might wanna raise w/ small pairs or suited connecters big vs. this player since they will fold incorectly on the flop more. when you have AA, usually their folds will be correct.

vs. the bad players you speak of, you might want to raise small with small pairs and suited connectors, building a pot. Then it will stay multiway, and you'll likely have built a very large pot if you hit. With AA or KK vs. these loosies you'll wanna make a big pot right away, hopefully heads up. OF course this works best when the players are really bad, and can't catch on.

But even against decent, thninking players, as long as you mix up, and randomize your amounts some, you can still vary your raises on your cards and not give much, if anything away. You don't base it solely on your cards, but your cards should be one factor you consider when choosing the size.

[RikaKazak]

If there's a donkey who calls $200, I raise based on cards.

99.9% of the time, I raise based on limpers, and position, has nothing to do with the cards.

[Shandrax]

I don't have the book yet (damn mail!), but reading the header of this topic is kinda amusing. If pre-flop raises should differ based on the hand, why not show the hand to everyone on the table?

Giving away information like that can only be done if you also add a certain percentage of pre-flop bluffs, otherwise it's just plain stupid.

I hope this book is not just another attempt to make the fish more predictable for the pros.

[avfletch]

For any of the high stakes players who don't read SSNL this same topic is being discussed there (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&fpart=all) and Ed has replied to some of the questions people have brought up.

[Isles]

Considering the problems Sklansky seems to have at times with the regulars in this forum, and the fact that he comes across as more of a "limit guy", I will wait for some rave reviews from somebody here before wasting any time and money on the book.

(not good enough to discern the misinformation from any possible decent points he may have to offer.)

[7n7]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have the book yet (damn mail!), but reading the header of this topic is kinda amusing. If pre-flop raises should differ based on the hand, why not show the hand to everyone on the table?

Giving away information like that can only be done if you also add a certain percentage of pre-flop bluffs, otherwise it's just plain stupid.

I hope this book is not just another attempt to make the fish more predictable for the pros.

[/ QUOTE ]

One of the main objectives from the p/f raising chapter was to dispute the notion that you should always raise the same amount regardless of your holdings/situation/limpers/etc. They are basically debunking the theory that says "always raise the same amount to avoid giving information away."

It goes on to give advice on what to factor in when sizing your bets. It does not say things like "always raise 3x with AA/KK, 5x w/medium pockets, etc."