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#11
03-07-2006, 03:48 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
My basic thoughts are:
1. Given pre-flop action, many opponents would not raise a 7 on the flop here. In fact, a majority of plays might not because most players are pretty passive. So there are many top pair type hands that might be in play that will call a river bet. 2. Some opponents will not open-raise hands like 88 pre-flop. Most won't raise 66 or 44, which are hands that might bet this turn AND call a river bet. 3. A 5 or a boat becomes significantly less likely once we do not get three-bet on the turn. 
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#12
03-07-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
there are many top pair type hands that might be in play that will call a river bet. [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 66 or 44, which are hands that might bet this turn AND call a river bet [/ QUOTE ] I dont think these hands call the river bet, even though the pot is large, where they have been checkraised on the turn by the preflop capper. Not in a live 30/60. [ QUOTE ] A 5 or a boat becomes significantly less likely once we do not get three-bet on the turn. [/ QUOTE ] I guess this is true.
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#13
03-07-2006, 04:01 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
I dont think these hands call the river bet, even though the pot is large, where they have been checkraised on the turn by the preflop capper. Not in a live 30/60. [/ QUOTE ] Live players suck at poker often, and I'm taking the OP's word for it that it "plays like an online 3/6 at best."
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#14
03-07-2006, 04:57 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
i would like to hear your reasoning for checking the turn. [/ QUOTE ] My reasoning for checking the turn was that I rarely see people check-reraise UTG with anything other than AA or possibly KK. I felt that UTG probably had aces and I had a feeling that he was waiting for the turn to pop it. (I grant you that I should find it unlikely that he had aces when he called the flop, but I was having one of those sessions where evryone was beating me). I decided that instead of getting raised on the turn that with such a huge pot, I would check/call the turn and river. When UTG checked the turn and MP1 bet, I felt it was now unlikely that UTG had aces, so I raised.
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#15
03-07-2006, 05:12 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I dont think these hands call the river bet, even though the pot is large, where they have been checkraised on the turn by the preflop capper. Not in a live 30/60. [/ QUOTE ] Live players suck at poker often, and I'm taking the OP's word for it that it "plays like an online 3/6 at best." [/ QUOTE ] The 30/60 game averages 4-5 to a flop, often with limpers, which is why I compare it to an online 3/6 game. I do agree that with the exception of the maniac, most of the other players are reasonable card readers. By the way, if the turn gives you a rainbow flow, I assume y'all feel the same way about checking the turn? What probability to you give to the maniac having AA? (I'd guess the maniac's stats are 50 VPIP, 13 PFR)
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#17
03-07-2006, 05:37 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
My reasoning for checking the turn was that I rarely see people check-reraise UTG with anything other than AA or possibly KK. I felt that UTG probably had aces and I had a feeling that he was waiting for the turn to pop it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand. If you thought he had aces, why would you check raise him? I don't get it.
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#18
03-07-2006, 06:08 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] My reasoning for checking the turn was that I rarely see people check-reraise UTG with anything other than AA or possibly KK. I felt that UTG probably had aces and I had a feeling that he was waiting for the turn to pop it. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand. If you thought he had aces, why would you check raise him? I don't get it. [/ QUOTE ] I had thought that UTG (the limp-reraiser) had aces. After he checked the turn as well, I check-raised MP1.
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#19
03-07-2006, 06:14 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
Online, in a no-limit ring game or especially a tournament, lots of players like to limp-reraise with AA or KK in any situation, usually when it is wrong (it is very rare when you should try this but there are a few times where it might be profitable). Usually in a situation like this, the player sees the pot getting bigger and his eyes widen with the size of the pot, so he throws in a reraise with QJs because he knows it plays well in multiway pots, completely disregarding the strength indicated by your raise. As far as I can tell, though, your limp-reraiser gets out of the way on this hand, so what about MP1? Hard to put him on an exact hand here. If he flopped a set, why not raise the flop with the action behind him? And if not that, rereaise the turn against 1 other player? A 5 is possible but unlikely, although you can never quite rule something like that out. Like everyone else said, just bet the turn, you are still probably ahead, only a 5, set, or 24??? is ahead of you. Kind of a weird pot for 30/60 live, I suppose.
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#20
03-07-2006, 06:16 PM
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Re: Playing KK vs. a limp-reraiser
[ QUOTE ]
Dear god man, checking this turn is suicide... Who is going to bet your hand for you? [/ QUOTE ] How about the player to your left who was described as "the table maniac"? This is a great spot to trap the field for two bets on the turn. When it checks around, the free card rarely costs you the pot. Anybody with outs to beat kings up wouldn't have folded the turn anyway. The only real question is which line gets more money in on average and in this spot, it's the check-raise.
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