K9s Bet the turn?

Absolution · #1 11-12-2007, 05:07 PM

These two hands happened close together on separate tables.

Hand 1:
This guy is semi-loose, but passive. He won't value bet lightly, but I'm not sure about how often he chases:

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (3 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero...

Hand 2:
This guy is very loose and passive. He will call down with any pair no matter the board and will chase any draw. He's also the type to bet any pair when checked to. He's donk bet me on an A high board where I had to give up with nothing but K high, and another time where he had top pair and I called down only to lose when I hit a better pair and he made a flush.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero...

HerbieGRD · #2 11-12-2007, 05:16 PM

I would probably check both of these behind here and not put any more money in UI. In general people are less likely to float A high boards with nothing - particularly loose passive types since they seem to think you have an Ace every time you raise preflop. I'm only calling a river bet in either hand if I spike a pair on the river.

Oink · #3 11-12-2007, 05:54 PM

I f they bluff river when turn cks through I valuecheck both. If they dont I valuebet both

mattnxtc · #4 11-12-2007, 06:33 PM

Hand one appears to be an easier bet than hand two based off of your perception of the opponents.

xerxesthegod · #5 11-12-2007, 06:57 PM

Many loose passive players peel flops very lightly and even with air so I'm more tempted to bet the second and as stated already the opponenet in the second hand is less likely to bet the river as a bluff so I bet in the second hand and check the first one.

HerbieGRD · #6 11-12-2007, 07:11 PM

It's entirely possible that I'm getting raped in these spots but do you guys really find that people are regularly peeling ace high flops with air when you raise preflop? I mean there are a lot of straight draws out there that you want to charge them to hit but these aren't guys I expect to bluff me with a worse hand on the river even if I check behind the turn. Plus we have considerably less equity when we are behind than villain does when he has unders and a straight draw. I guess I'm just not seeing the value in a bet here. Hand 1 seems really close but hand 2 seems like an easy check behind and fold river UI.

Absolution · #7 11-12-2007, 08:56 PM

These days people seem to peel A high flops regularly. I'm not sure why, but I suspect it's just the aggressive online environment. Also, people tend to give free turn cards (like I did here) when their opponents peel A high flops. I think both of these were bets and check behind. In the first on there are a lot of straight draws and in the second one the guy just peeled too lightly.

thepizzlefosho · #8 11-12-2007, 09:03 PM

I agree with oink that these are entirely opponent dependent. against LAGs who take shots I check behind and call sometimes on the river UI. Against LP or really straight forward TAGs who sometimes peel light I often bet the turn planning on checking behind the river UI.

kimchi · #9 11-12-2007, 09:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
These days people seem to peel A high flops regularly

[/ QUOTE ]

I've noiced this too. Very LP types will peel a raggy A-high flop with overcards to the 2nd pair but undercards to the Ace. They often fold to a turn bet and donk a river if they're allowed to check through.

Against most other players, I'd check the turn and fold river UI as there's not much a reasonably conscious villain is peeling that you beat and he wont be taking to SD.

I've also noticed a lot of these guys calling a flop and turn bet from my UI hand and donking a river brick as if they're unwittingly playing a WA/WB hand. I hate that.

johnnyrocket · #10 11-12-2007, 10:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with oink that these are entirely opponent dependent. against LAGs who take shots I check behind and call sometimes on the river UI. Against LP or really straight forward TAGs who sometimes peel light I often bet the turn planning on checking behind the river UI.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think this is sound advice.