hey

milesdyson · #1 09-18-2007, 01:04 AM

what do you think oF SB's play in this hand?

HJ openraises. SB reraises AJo. BB calls. HJ calls.

flop KJ4 rainbow. SB bets, BB calls, HJ raises, SB 3-bets, both call.

turn 6. SB bets and both call.

river 8. SB checks, BB bets, HJ calls, SB folds.

Palomino · #2 09-18-2007, 01:15 AM

depends on reads...but i think the fold on the riv is probably ok, hard to make an overcall there

vmacosta · #3 09-18-2007, 01:26 AM

i think it's somewhere between ok and expert, depending on HJ's pfr and af.

NinaWilliams · #4 09-18-2007, 01:37 AM

I think the flop play is pretty bad barring some bizarre read that hj always has QT, QJ or worse here. River is standard.

sharpie · #5 09-18-2007, 02:48 AM

With no reads I wouldn't 3 bet the flop. River fold seems OK given the parlay, if we can 3 bet the flop we should have HJ beat a bit, but BB would probably check worse made hands, and who decides to bluff a busted draw there but a retard? Having said that I'd go on week tilt if I folded the best hand, and possibly would've made the call at the table to prevent that.

MitchL · #6 09-18-2007, 03:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i think it's somewhere between ok and expert, depending on HJ's pfr and af.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think its more like terrible to expert depending on HJs pfr and af.

Sheakspeer · #7 09-18-2007, 03:39 AM

The flop play is obviously debateable and Nina is right. SB should have c/r'd. And yes I know we're giving up initiative.

In fact, I think you can make a case for check / raising the turn after 3 betting the flop because the Q is really the only card we don't want to see if HJ checks behind and HJ might bet a weaker hand on the turn and we have a big chance to push BB off what appears to be a weak or marginal hand. If he has a K so be it. Of course when HJ bets the odds he has a K increase, so this play is very controversial. However, so is betting the turn after a flop 3 bet. And the line you guys want to take is nitty.

Had we c/r'd the flop, check calling the turn is fairly obvious especially if BB is out.

The river I'll have to think about and really depends on our prior action which I think should include a check / raise somewhere.

My prediction is most others on this board likes calling the flop raise, check / calling the turn, and debating about a river laydown that could be the best hand.

I think sb's play is better than your nitty line.

Now flame me.

thepizzlefosho · #8 09-18-2007, 04:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The flop play is obviously debateable and Nina is right. SB should have c/r'd. And yes I know we're giving up initiative.

In fact, I think you can make a case for check / raising the turn after 3 betting the flop because the Q is really the only card we don't want to see if HJ checks behind and HJ might bet a weaker hand on the turn and we have a big chance to push BB off what appears to be a weak or marginal hand. If he has a K so be it. Of course when HJ bets the odds he has a K increase, so this play is very controversial. However, so is betting the turn after a flop 3 bet. And the line you guys want to take is nitty.

Had we c/r'd the flop, check calling the turn is fairly obvious especially if BB is out.

The river I'll have to think about and really depends on our prior action which I think should include a check / raise somewhere.

My prediction is most others on this board likes calling the flop raise, check / calling the turn, and debating about a river laydown that could be the best hand.

I think sb's play is better than your nitty line.

Now flame me.

[/ QUOTE ]

this makes no sense. You realize we have AJo, and the flop is KJ4 RB. Also we 3-bet pf and were just CC by the BB? Why would we ever c/r the flop? And regardless of whether or not we 3-bet or called a flop raise why would we ever c/r the turn?

Barring some amazing read or crazy stats on both villains, advice to c/r either street with 2nd pair is pretty horrible in a multiway pot where we had initiative preflop.

you should probably go back and read the OP because it really doesn't make sense what you are suggesting.

Oink · #9 09-18-2007, 04:31 AM

Who are the players?

I think under special circumstances the flop play is ok.

If HJ is Miles who will sometimes raise a draw in position if he thinks it helps him win a big pot(right Miles?) and if BB is a player who SB knows will raise a K on that flop. Well, then I can see why he 3-bets.

But as a default without knowing anything about the players and dynamics I think the flop play is terrible.

milesdyson · #10 09-18-2007, 02:35 PM

button is enfys (30/20/3.5 over 4500 hands) and i'm pretty sure he raises JT on the flop and maybe the oesd (i do not know this for sure but he is definitely overaggressive on the flop).

i left out reads so people would come up with a read that would make sb's play ok/bad/good.

i do not think enfys will ever fold a K to my turn bet unless he's divinely inspired.

intuitively at the table it seemed like i had decent equity against enfys (not great obviously) and that i should take the hit to possibly get HU and since i could safely c/f the river against him if it stays 3-way.