quit donking around you ape

[terp]

just started playing so no stats or any of that fancy stuff. guy has been limping regardless of position. i haven't been terrrrrribly active yet, here.

the prior hand he limped, i raised, three others called and then he called to close it. i bet close to pot on a Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] board and nobody called (huge beat for my bottom set).

before anyone asks, yes, i fold flop some percentage of the time, but i don't think that folding is the optimal play against this kind of player.

at the time i thought my turn action was kind of clear but i think it's worth discussing, so i won't reveal what i in fact did.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $99.00
BB: $92.50
UTG: $114.95
Hero (MP): $113.55
CO: $114.20
BTN: $79.70

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG calls $1.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $4.50</font>, 4 folds, UTG calls $3.50

Flop: ($10.50) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $10.50</font>, Hero calls $10.50

Turn: ($31.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">UTG bets $23.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero ....</font>

[Fletcher19]

meh this all depends on how he reacts to his donk bets being shoved on obv,

i havent checked pokerstove but i spose you have around 30% equity against any one pair, so if you think he's going to fold enough then shove.

I suspect he isn't though so i just call

[phobos]

ez shove

i'd consider raising the flop

[aislephive]

I don't like raising the flop much on this board, it's just not a great board to bluff raise. I would just have folded since all your outs are dirty and he potted it and you don't have a good read on his play.

If I called the flop it's because I think I can get him off the hand later or I just thought he was FOS to begin with. So if you call the flop you really should shove the turn on this card. If you think he is leading with hands he will overvalue then just call the turn, but in that case your flop call was dubious.

[terp]

my thinking on the flop is that bad players don't donk out for pot with real hands very often and this is a frustration play.

thus, AQ high is actually good a lot and he will have to six out me quite often to improve on the turn. which brings up the question of what is the optimal turn play if this thinking is correct...

[aislephive]

[ QUOTE ]
my thinking on the flop is that bad players don't donk out for pot with real hands very often and this is a frustration play.

thus, AQ high is actually good a lot and he will have to six out me quite often to improve on the turn. which brings up the question of what is the optimal turn play if this thinking is correct...

[/ QUOTE ]

He may or may not donk out with big hands like sets, straights, etc. But he is leading a small overpair, pair + draw, etc. a lot of the time that I think the flop call is bad. Most people don't randomly pot flops without the initiave in HU pots either, and when they do they usually have something, even if it's not strong.

Even if AQ is good, it's hard to get your hand to showdown anyways and have it be good.

[spacetime]

He is taking a strong line, so fold equity is somewhat smaller than if we were the aggressor. I'm leading towards calling.

IMO, fold flop.

[FoldEqu1ty]

I'm not folding but I wouldn't shove now. If he has air/very little, he'll probably let you know by checking the river. A shove all-in will then be very profitable. A big part of his range is pair+draw type hands, which call a turn push but usually c/f unimproved on the river in my experience. If you miss and he makes a strong river lead you can safely fold. But I can definitely call a small bet on the river with ace high, maybe up to 1/3 pot.

[Hince]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not folding but I wouldn't shove now. If he has air/very little, he'll probably let you know by checking the river. A shove all-in will then be very profitable. A big part of his range is pair+draw type hands, which call a turn push but usually c/f unimproved on the river in my experience. If you miss and he makes a strong river lead you can safely fold. But I can definitely call a small bet on the river with ace high, maybe up to 1/3 pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this for the most part. It's entirely possible that he hit something large on this flop, but his river action will certainly tell you that. The only question I have is if the river bricks, and he has something like 66, how often is he folding here? Should we be holding off on some river cards?