Two hands where I took the same line

[Mr. T]

20-40 live 10 handed

I've played with all these players before so they should know I'm tight and aggresive and am capable of betting missed flops.

hand 1:

BB is a fish who cold calls alot and only bets when really strong but gets scared sometimes and will call down with strong hands but also call with weak hands.

MP player has TAG like pre-flop raising standards but plays weak passive post-flop.

I'm in the hijack, folded to MP on my right who raises(I give him a range of 77+ A10s+), I 3-bet with 10's, BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: AAQ rainbow
BB checks, MP checks, I bet, BB calls, MP folds

Turn: 6
BB checks, I check.

River: 4(no flush possible)
BB checks, I bet.



Hand 2:

MP is different player from hand 1. He raises light pre-flop, I don't have that good of a read on him post flop, sometimes he's tricky sometimes he's passive.

BB is a fish.

Folded to MP who raises, I'm next and 3-bet A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], BB calls, MP calls.

Flop: 954 rainbow (one [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img])
BB checks, MP checks, I bet, BB folds, MP calls.

Turn: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
MP checks, I check.

River: K(black)
MP checks, I bet.

[bakku]

hand 1, bet the turn not the river. he's not calling a river bet with KT, JT, etc. but will call a turn bet.

hand 2, i'd check behind the river..he's calling with any pair and folding everything you beat

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

In hand 1, the river bet will never fold a better hand. I'd flip my cards over, being fairly happy that I get to do so for free. Whether to bet the turn, and whether to bet the river after having bet the turn, is more a matter of taste/feel. But you shouldn't bet the river without having bet the turn.

In hand 2, you have plenty enough equity to bet the turn. It looks like you're playing a little scared, FWIW. Nevertheless, the river bet works a little better here since you can represent the king.

[jkamowitz]

There's not much value in betting the river in hand one. You have him three hands you can beat 77-99 and a lot you can lose to. Any A/Q/JJ etc. So check and see.

Hand two, if you bet the turn as you probably should, you have a nice bluff on the river too. But if you check the turn, he only has to fear a K and not also a Q.

[Mr. T]

Thanks for the replies guys. First let me say that I posted these hands because I deviated from what I would normally do, which is to bet the turn in both cases, and I was wondering is there is any merit to what I was thinking.

In hand one I normally bet the turn with the intention of checking behind on the river, instead I checked with the intention of folded the river if he bet. I know this looks really weak but I have a very strong read on his play, he is very loose pre-flop, very passive, and in hours and hours of play with him I've never seen him bet the river and not turn over the nuts or close to it.

Now when he checks the river I think it increases the chance that he has a small to medium pair and eliminates an ace but there is still the chance I lose when he calls with a Q or KK or JJ, but I'm now more confident that I have the best hand so I bet for value. He calls I show my hand and he mucks.

In hand two I think a Q just isn't as scary as say a K so I'm reluctant to try and represent it. If the K falls on the turn I definitely bet. I just think my opponent is the type of player that thinks(about me)"He's young and aggresive and I'm going to call him down with my pair because there is no A or K out there."

Now the river. I have to disagree with you bakku, I think he folds med/small pairs here alot because, like Nate suggested, my turn check looks alot like AK.

[Justin A]

Bet the turn in hand 2 because it's still quite likely that you're ahead.

[private joker]

[ QUOTE ]


Now the river. I have to disagree with you bakku, I think he folds med/small pairs here alot because, like Nate suggested, my turn check looks alot like AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

People don't go around folding pairs for one bet heads up on the river because they *think* a guy has AK and the K just got there. Not at the live 20/40 games I know.

[luckychewy]

i think hand 1 is perfect, i love the river bet.

hand 2 i would def bet the turn, as justin a said you might be ahead and def have enough equity, also free showdown in the event he calls and you miss.

[Abbaddabba]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1, bet the turn not the river. he's not calling a river bet with KT, JT, etc. but will call a turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

The issue here is that after he calls the flop, we expect to be behind more often than we're ahead - and when we're behind, we're often being set up for a checkraise while still drawing live.

If you're sure that he wont bet the river with a worse pair (or bluff), then it's a check behind on the turn - fold to a river bet, and value bet if checked to.

The only situation where i'd bet the turn is if i thought he was straightforward enough that he'd just bet/3bet the flop with a big hand and never go for checkraises. Then the turn bet is for value and/or to protect against a weak draw because you're ahead of his range.

[ QUOTE ]
In hand two I think a Q just isn't as scary as say a K so I'm reluctant to try and represent it. If the K falls on the turn I definitely bet. I just think my opponent is the type of player that thinks(about me)"He's young and aggresive and I'm going to call him down with my pair because there is no A or K out there."


[/ QUOTE ]

If he thinks that of you, he'll generally call with any pair anyways.
There's no risk fo a check/raise bluff really, so it's reall just a matter of how often you think he folds better hands.

1/6 times is the breakeven point.

And who knows - you may even get called by a worse hand occasionally!

[Mr. T]

Well I still like my play in hand one because I'm sure he only bets the river if I'm beat. The only down side I see with the play is if he has J10s or KJs in which case I lose a bet by not betting the turn and checking behind on the river. One cool thing about the hand is after I flipped over 1010 for the win, is the guy who folded the flop told me he had JJ [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

As far as hand two goes I think you guys are right. I have plenty of equity and may even have the best hand on the turn, I guess I was to quick to put him on a small pair. For what it's worth after I bet the river he thought for 2 seconds then folded.