Angelo: Fastrolling

[SNOWBALL]

I have one response to people who won't show when I call
"show or muck"
poker is an information war. I want all the information, and I want to give out none.
If a player is a real big fish and I want to keep them happy, or if they're on my left, and I think being friends with them will get them to softplay me, then I make exceptions.

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
well he didn't mention what to do with KQs in the cutoff facing a raise either, so I guess you'll have to wait for the book.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lame.

[Tommy Angelo]

[ QUOTE ]
He didn't address the most important situation of all: when they announce a good hand you can't beat - i.e the angle-shooting situation. Dunno why.

[/ QUOTE ]

All1N,

There are parts of my book (one of them is called “fastfolding”) that have some text about mucking. The excerpt published in the 2+2 magazine called “Fastrolling” is on the topic of showing. That’s why I didn’t put anything in there about mucking.

Just in case you’re interested, here’s what I do in the situation you asked about.

At the showdown, I don’t muck my hand until I know I am beat. If someone declares a hand that beats mine, and there remains a greater than zero chance that my hand could be better than his, then I don’t muck. The only exception is if I am playing at Artichoke Joe’s. The rule there is that if a player declares a hand, say, “I have a pair of kings,” and I muck my hand before he exposes any cards, and he cannot produce a hand that is a pair of kings or better, then I win the pot. At that casino, I will fastfold anytime I hear someone declare a hand that beats mine. Anywhere else, I do what I suspect you do too, and hold on to my cards until I know I am beat.

Tommy

[MadScientist]

I like the style it was written and I like most everything else of Tommy's that I have read.

This was a bizarre choice! I think it will hurt sales.

Having said that, I agree with the spirit of most everything that was written.

[jeffnc]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the style it was written and I like most everything else of Tommy's that I have read.

This was a bizarre choice! I think it will hurt sales.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to buy the book anyway, but interestingly this article made me more interested in buying the book because it's an interesting topic that you don't find in other poker books. I think Angelo writes about interesting things from an interesting perspective, and I also have reason to believe the other topics in the book will be covered better than this topic, based on other things of his I've read. I think it will be kind of book where every player will pick up some really good ideas, even if the quality of each section is not the nuts.

[jfk]

I'll join the camp of the underwhelmed.

Granted that there are many well respected posters here who hold Tommy in very high regard but I'm unsure for whom this sort of advice is directed or particularly useful. Are there cardroom regulars who're seeking counsel on the best ways to showdown their hands?

Though the spirit of the article is very well intentioned, in my experience my own tendency to fast roll (and play fast) is something which angle shooting types constantly try to exploit. As such, I tend to be increasingly willing to sacrifice the good intent thematic of Tommy's advice to make sure that I'm not at a deficit in the swap of information.

Can we call this a mulligan and get a second, strategy oriented post in the books/pub forum?

[mordecaibrown]

I'm buying the damn book.
Even before I posted once on her I'd been reading/enjoying Tommy's posts.
I love the thought process he goes through and once he got his website up and rolling I found myself checking it often for more articles.

Nice work---I've enjoyed all of it.
M.

[TheDna]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm buying the damn book.
Even before I posted once on her I'd been reading/enjoying Tommy's posts.
I love the thought process he goes through and once he got his website up and rolling I found myself checking it often for more articles.

Nice work---I've enjoyed all of it.
M.

[/ QUOTE ]

qft.

[MRBAA]

Tommy's writing is mostly smoke. It's not a good enough read to be entertainment (ala Biggest Game in Town or Positively Fifth Street), yet doesn't have enough strategy to help most people win more. Never have understood his appeal, but lots of folks seem to like his stuff.

In the same vein, Ray Zee is both more amusing and also often gets some real poker wisdom into his stuff.