polishing off the cannon

[Montezuma21]

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arrr in this is the kinda guy who folds a T here cause hes scared of a 6.

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I think this is true at 100NL, but at 200NL i think even this guy will realise our hand damn near never contains a 6

[pineapple888]

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the turn bet:
-folds out hands worse than top pair (a lot)

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Cause the 4 scared him?

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-prevents me from getting bluffed off ace high on the river by missed draws


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Uh... what? You block the turn so he doesn't bluff on the *river*? If it comes up, deal with it then. You can always call.

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-gets me value in the future if i showdown my bluff

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Um. OK, I guess.

[SirFelixCat]

I think terp played this hand perfectly up to this point. I bet this turn the VAST majority of the time w/ his hand as well. But I'd also do that w/ an overpair etc since so many draws are out there and 1/2 the deck could suck for us.

As for betting the river, I'm more inclined to ck behind because villain knows WE don't have a 6 and he might not think that he knows that so he may spite call w/ Tx.

I'd like more stats/reads on the guy, but my gut says to ck behind river.

[terp]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the turn bet:
-folds out hands worse than top pair (a lot)

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause the 4 scared him?

[ QUOTE ]

-prevents me from getting bluffed off ace high on the river by missed draws


[/ QUOTE ]
Uh... what? You block the turn so he doesn't bluff on the *river*? If it comes up, deal with it then. You can always call.

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-gets me value in the future if i showdown my bluff

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Um. OK, I guess.

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jesus dude.

people fold for more reasons than because something changed the landscape.

1) my turn betting range on this board is stronger than my flop betting range. this is a fact. whether he realizes this or simply goes "oh no he bet again he must not have AK," you cannot tell me that plenty of donks call once with garbage underpairs and occasionally even weak top pairs and then fold the turn (regardless of whether it likely improved me).

2) this is not a good spot to call a river bet with ace high if the draws blank. this is a goddamn fact.

3) part of the value of bluffing is in getting called lighter in the future, balancing ranges, etc. even if he is not doing any sophisticated handreading, he will likely assume i am bluffing with unrealistically high frequency and i will get called down super light. fish HATE getting bluffed and if he sees me bet two here with air he will never give me credit again

[Snipe]

I like how the hand was played. I bet the turn versus this villain as a) 37/7s often float this flop oop (IME) b) you often fold out pairs other than a Tx c) you charge the multiple draws out there d) you're often betting the best hand e) you inflate the pot to set up a natural river shove if you hit one of your many outs, particularly as if he has a hand he calls the turn with, he's likely not folding the river.

On the river, I go vag and ck behind. I'm not a fan of trying to bluff donks of TP and you beat missed clubs. All small gutters hit the straight or 2 pair.

I love to 3 ball, but just don't think it's effective in enough of the time in this spot to be +EV.

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the turn bet:
-folds out hands worse than top pair (a lot)

[/ QUOTE ]

Cause the 4 scared him?


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The 4 is irrelevant. Fish like this call the flop with one pair all the time hoping to hit 2 pair on the turn, or because they has a pair and puts you on AKz.

This bet folds out all those one-pair hands that are worse than a ten.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

-prevents me from getting bluffed off ace high on the river by missed draws


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Uh... what? You block the turn so he doesn't bluff on the *river*? If it comes up, deal with it then. You can always call.


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Yeah, um, GL with that. He'll bluff the river with club draws but not with a high enough frequency to make calling profitable. And a lot of the time he's "bluffing" with bottom pair or some [censored]. Why check and induce a "bluff" from bottom pair when you can get him to FOLD bottom pair by betting?!?

[jlocdog]

I wouldn't expect to fold out mid PP's/second pair on this turn too often. The board is quite drawy which will bring some skepticism from your opponent. As well, you would think draws would come along also if they believe you do have an overpair.

Following this thought process, a river bet will fold out a bunch of missed draws and get looked up by stubborn PP's. This isn't to say a river shove doesn't fold the likes of 88/A7, but just that they may look you up more frequently then you think (or like for that matter).

[terp]

Full Tilt Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

MP: $148
CO: $197
Hero (BTN): $199.65
SB: $98
BB: $569.25
UTG: $300.50

Pre-Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] dealt to Hero (BTN)
UTG calls $2, MP calls $2, CO folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $11</font>, 2 folds, UTG calls $9, MP folds

Flop: ($27) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $18</font>, UTG calls $18

Turn: ($63) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $44</font>, UTG calls $44

River: ($151) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG checks, Hero checks

Results: $151 Pot ($3 Rake)
Hero showed J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Ace Jack high) and LOST (-$73 NET)
UTG showed T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a pair of Tens) and WON $148 (+$75 NET)

[wdead]

bet more on the flop, check turn

[gimmetheloot]

id fire again. I dont see him having a 6 here, and think AT-JT are most of his range. I hope he can fold them?