Australian Election - 24 November

[renodoc]

Well, I was hoping for December so my wife could attempt to vote. being overseas for >40 yrs, is there any mechanism for her to register and vote in this election?

[BuddyQ]

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Australia has elections? Neat!

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Yeah...we have a far less corrupt democracy than the states, actually. Compulsory voting and the Westminster system FTW. Presidental systems are dumb and prone to corruption.

Anyway, I think Ruddock has it has in the bag at this stage. People despise the new industrial relations laws even though they're great for the economy and more libertarian in nature. Plus they're a great campaign platform for the communists/unions/Labor party. I actually don't mind Rudd as a PM, I heard him speak once at a business meeting about the future of Australian business and security given the threats from certain developing nations - a very smart man.

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Australia's actually one of my top "there's still hope" countries. Much more decentralized than the U.S. these days.

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Yes except that everyone there talks funny, you know like that dead alligator guy.

(edit: too soon?)

[bunny]

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Anyone care to share their political affiliations/who they'll be voting for? I'm a Liberal all the way (conservative politics, allied with business owners, support privatization, but still with public health and education systems)

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Died in the wool labor voter. I dont see a big difference between the two, but prefer to err on the side of social safety net in any conflict between social services and pro-profit policies.

It seems to me there are a few differences between the two this election. I think the health policies are clearly different (though I dont like either), I like labor's view on higher education as I think the rundown over the last ten years has been very unfortunate and obviously industrial relations is a clear distinction. Climate change seems like a false issue to me (though Howard's late conversion after quite adamant skepticism looks embarassing in my view) - I doubt either of them is going to have the stomach to do anything substantive.

My guess is a labor majority of 6-8 seats.

[Phil153]

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I doubt either of them is going to have the stomach to do anything substantive.

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I don't see where you get this from. Liberals have done a heap of very unpopular stuff that was great for the country - introduced consumption based taxation (GST) - a massive and highly unpopular change, sold off Telstra, work for the dole, made industrial relations laws more competitive, given people freedom of choice with respect to unions (forced association is pure communism), and privatized a couple of large sectors. And changed the higher education system, which was very unpopular and may or may not have been good for the country.

I'm curious what the basis for your quote is, and why people hold this perception.

[bunny]

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I doubt either of them is going to have the stomach to do anything substantive.

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I don't see where you get this from. Liberals have done a heap of very unpopular stuff that was great for the country ...

...I'm curious what the basis for your quote is, and why people hold this perception.

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I meant specifically with regard to climate change. Both sides seem to me to be making lots of long term undertakings without any real plan as to how it will come about. I doubt either party is going to be advocating drastic change through fear of being labelled extremist a la Brown.

With regard to your other points:
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introduced consumption based taxation (GST) - a massive and highly unpopular change

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I agree this was a good thing, though would quibble that it was really expanding rather than introducing. Also, my preference would have been to make it more progressive but that's my leftie nature asserting itself.

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sold off Telstra

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I dont consider this here nor there really - I dont see why it's "great for the country". I'm not really for or against privatisation, although I dont yet accept the arguments of the "privatisation leads to lower cost" proponents as it doesnt match my experience.

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work for the dole

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From what I've seen this was nothing but hype. I would agree it's a good thing in theory, but dont think what actually eventuated was anything like what it could/should have been. Also, I dont think it was particularly unpopular (notwithstanding the horrified rhetoric put out by the usual suspects).

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made industrial relations laws more competitive, given people freedom of choice with respect to unions (forced association is pure communism)

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I agree forced unionisation is obviously wrong - I dont know they can claim to have abolished that though, it's hasnt been even remotely compulsory for quite some time. Nonetheless, I agree they have made it "less compulsory" and that that's a good thing. I dont agree that they have made the industrial relations laws more competitive (or dont really know what that means really) we seem to have the same amount of red tape with less protection for dumb people who cant advocate effectively for themselves.

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and privatized a couple of large sectors.

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As I said, I dont see that this is inherently good (though dont think it's inherently bad either).

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And changed the higher education system, which was very unpopular and may or may not have been good for the country.

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Again I'm a leftie, but I think it was bad. I like HECS and dont find it too expensive, but I do think the cuts to funding for the non-industry related disciplines were too much.

[Josem]

Minutes ago, Howard & Costello announced big tax cuts. That'll be one of the defining topics of the campaign, I imagine.




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I meant specifically with regard to climate change. Both sides seem to me to be making lots of long term undertakings without any real plan as to how it will come about. I doubt either party is going to be advocating drastic change through fear of being labelled extremist a la Brown.

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I'm not aware of the Coalition making any long-term undertakings off the top of my head - apart from introducing carbon emissions trading in the next term.

The problem with the 50% reduction by 2050 claims (such as Rudd + Garrett's) is that there's no research of how to do this (especially if you exclude nuclear power from the equation)

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I'm not really for or against privatisation, although I dont yet accept the arguments of the "privatisation leads to lower cost" proponents as it doesnt match my experience.[/quot]

Simple example: 20 years ago, it cost 25c for a local phone call. How much does it cost these days? (20c?) Account for inflation, and that's a huge price reduction.

[bunny]

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Simple example: 20 years ago, it cost 25c for a local phone call. How much does it cost these days? (20c?) Account for inflation, and that's a huge price reduction.

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But that reduction had happened before telstra was sold. I think that's showing the benefit of advancing technology, not privatisation. It's not like the price plummeted when they sold telstra. And if you look at utilities - gas and electricity were both privatised promising "big savings to the consumer" (at least in south australia) with the exact opposite occurring a few years in.

Like I said - I'm not really for or against, but I havent seen a lot of empirical evidence that it's cheaper, just theoretical arguing.

[bunny]

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Minutes ago, Howard & Costello announced big tax cuts. That'll be one of the defining topics of the campaign, I imagine.


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I think you're probably right. It bothers me that both parties are claiming interest rates and probably inflation are on the way up due to the booming economy - their solution? Use the surplus to increase government spending and provide tax cuts. That should help.

EDIT: I shouldnt have said "are claiming" I should have said "are aware".

[HP]

sup, I´ll be voting in Nov and honestly don´t know much about what labor and liberal are planning to do if elected

Anyone want to do me a favour and tell me how they differ in regards to education?

[Chips Ahoy]

Here's a new Australian party with a crazy platform. If they get Senators elected, the Senators will vote every issue according to online polls of Australian voters. Good idea?