Common and annoying situation

[Guy McSucker]

In this thread, kiddo wrote:

[ QUOTE ]

In my experience there are so many players that never ever pick up patterns. U raise A3o on button, they 3bet from blinds, flop is Axx, u call flop, turn, river and they show u their pocketpair. 3 hands later they do the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

So here's my question.

Button opens, you threebet from the BB with a pocket pair, let's say TT, and the flop is A84. You bet, he calls.

What's a good line? Let's suppose you've seen the scenario kiddo gives above play out a few hands ago, and that your opponent is decent.

I ask because, yes, it feels stupid to bet-bet-bet over and over again and keep being shown Ax, but on the other hand I can't see a better way to play it without opening myself up for a good hard pwning.

Guy.

[yourface]

bet c/c c/f maybe?

flop bet is necessary because he'll fold a lot of broadway hands that have 6 outs. turn c/c induces a bluff if he was floating or a value bet from a smaller pair. after you take that line he has to know you're going to SD so a river bluff is unlikely and he probably won't vb with small pairs. it would suck if he vbs K8 or 99 though

[jstill]

vs most players bet bet bet is the best play and i ll rarely adjust I dont care what kiddo says :P

with KK-TT on A38 so many people steal and then call the flop with any pair getting 7:1 (probably correctly since they ll be ahead of ur range atleast that often vs KQ KJ QJs or worse PPs) then make loose calls on the turn hoping u just cant stop firing with a worse PP or some KQ air.

If u played with some one so much you knew exactly how they played everything adjustments may make one line more EV than the default, aka if they peel light on the flop but only call the turn with an A or profitable draw but will bet those and some weaker pairs theyd fold to ur second barrel when u ck to them on the turn, u can make the adjustment and ck call then turn then bet fold or ck call the river (or ck fold if they dont vb weak pairs here or missed draws enough to make the river call profitable getting only like 7:1).

u cant know things like that tho from having them raise Ax and flopping top pair against u in position 3 times in a row or even six, and ck calling the river once uve bet two streets is maybe the worst of the three options altho id never ck fold either after betting 2 streets.

Its not a value bet at that point but a defensive bet vs most. It gains value since they ll call a range of worse hands they ll ck behind, but wont bet as large a range of worse hands, so this bet is more EV than ck calling to induce particular on this dry board but perhaps also when straight and flush draws existed and all missed. Debatable and opponent dependent perhaps in the latter scenario.

Curious to hear what Kiddo thinks the proper adjustment is and how long before u can deduce that its necessary or somehow better than the other lines. It seems ck calling the turn loses as much vs better hands and gains less from worse hands in this perhaps difficult spot (on this board I think there is less value in inducing a bluff for starters vs worse hands, and weak pairs will only bet one street usually).

[tmfs]

IMO kiddo's example is poor.

[Surf]

I'd just bet bet bet here against anyone even remotely showdownmonkeyish.

Assuming he's competent bet turn, c-f river is a decent line. You can c/r AK there, too.

Surf

[donger]

Some situations just suck; every option you could take still leads to feeling pwnt.