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  #1  
Old 04-09-2007, 03:37 PM
thesilkworm thesilkworm is offline
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Default QQ - too weak, or standard?

Is this a cap preflop?

As played, is my flop play fine?

We'll disregard the fact that the river was an offsuit Q [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

MP - good aggressive player, around 33/25
Button - pretty weak tight, too passive post flop, around 27/9

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Button calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, Hero folds
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  #2  
Old 04-09-2007, 03:46 PM
sethypooh21 sethypooh21 is offline
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Default Re: QQ - too weak, or standard?

Ew...I'm not sure where to start. PF is defensible, but I think I cap here, even with a relatively passive 3-better. After not capping, flop is unspeakably bad - overpair plus a couple of back door draws with a completely disguised hand, the bet/fold is pretty weak. You can't love your hand, given the action, but you are still ahead enough to want to go farther. But bloating the pot by donking into two raisers isn't going to do anything for you.
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  #3  
Old 04-09-2007, 04:37 PM
jstill jstill is offline
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Default Re: QQ - too weak, or standard?

just cap preflop. when u dont ck the flop probably ck raising if it goes bet call and unforunately probably stuck calling 2 if it goes bet raise, then call if MP 3bets probably folding the turn UI and folding if its 2 back to u again. If it goes ck bet fold i mite just ck call down vs more passives but MP seems aggro enough id cr and just not find a fold at any point.

I dont think folding the flop as played is horrible, and I probably would do the same, but I dont see a reason to donk here ur not well ahead of both on this board and its not like its getting checked through often.

Even getting 9:1 or 6:1 (depending on if MP caps) Ur backdoor draws arent worth that much, if either has a better overpair its 50/50 they have a better club draw and if they dont the other could have the Ac or Kc. The running straight draws J 9, 9 J, J K, K J all have u just picking up a gutter on the turn, and all but the K completes a straight for 9x or J9 and the K hits Kx hands, so they arent very strong. Also ur hands not very disguised after u call two cold and donk into a cap, both MP and Button have shown considerable strength now so I think if ur gonna bet u have to find a fold when it comes two back to u. The chance they have exactly MP JJ or QQ and button JJ QQ or AsKs seems remote and not worth trying to showdown(esp given buttons description he mite not even play that one worse combo of AKss that makes sense this way and mite not cap JJ preflop).
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Old 04-09-2007, 05:49 PM
aargh57 aargh57 is offline
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Default Re: QQ - too weak, or standard?

Yeah, I always cap this pf.

I guess your real worry here is button's range but man, this is a pretty damn big pot. Button may have TT,KK, or AA but I think it's very possible he's got JJ, AT, or broadway suited cards. Right now you're getting 9 to one to call and you've got 2 Q outs plus about 2 more backdoor flush/strt outs so I think it's an easy call even if you know you're behind which isn't the case here.
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  #5  
Old 04-09-2007, 05:57 PM
jstill jstill is offline
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Default Re: QQ - too weak, or standard?

why is buttons range ur real worry u have to parlay both. MP capped preflop remember, his range is still pretty tight AQs+ TT+ and Buttons is about the same. We're not doing well against eithers range and neither have done anything so far except show as much strength as they could at every given opportunity so far in this hand.

You cant really say 9:1 either because MP will cap here some percentage of the time (any estimates from anyone? 10% 20%?) and our bd outs are really dirty id give them like an out worth of equity combined probably.
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