Protocal question on showing hand

jeffnc · #1 01-29-2007, 07:24 PM

I was in a hand that was played in an interesting way and it went to showdown but I mucked my set when I saw the winning hand. A player uninvolved in the hand, who I had chatted with briefly earlier, asked me what I had. He commented that he would have asked me before I mucked but he didn't want to appear rude. So now I'd appear rude I suppose if I didn't answer. So technically he could have asked the dealer to show all cards, but I have a few questions.
1) what if a player asks to see all cards, but you throw your cards into the muck in such a way they can't be retrieved. Can you get in some sort of trouble?
2) Is it rude not to answer the question after the hand has been mucked?
3) If you answered, would you tell the truth? If you made something up, what would be your intention in terms of image?

TheStation · #2 01-29-2007, 08:47 PM

No to all three

If someone is abusing the IWTSTH rule then i start to just fire it into the muck so it cant be retrieved

jeffnc · #3 01-30-2007, 10:09 AM

Then I guess my next question would be, if there are no consequences to disobeying the "rule", then is it really a rule?

deucedeuce00 · #4 01-30-2007, 10:23 AM

Well ultimately, you have control of your own cards, and nothing can stop you from mucking the losing hand. And while technically it is a rule that other players have a right to see any hand that goes to showdown, it won't be strictly enforsed unless the person asking to see the hand is also accusing you of collusion.

psandman · #5 01-30-2007, 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well ultimately, you have control of your own cards, and nothing can stop you from mucking the losing hand. And while technically it is a rule that other players have a right to see any hand that goes to showdown, it won't be strictly enforsed unless the person asking to see the hand is also accusing you of collusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

If a player clearly asks me as a dealer to show a hand (assuming the rules provide for showing this hand) and I hear him while you still have the cards in your hand YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR CARDS IRRETRIEVABLE UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING WHICH WILL GET YOU KICKED OUT OF THE ROOM.

Now if you unload them before I hear the request that is different.

AKQJ10 · #6 01-30-2007, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If someone is abusing the IWTSTH rule then i start to just fire it into the muck so it cant be retrieved

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine, and I would have no problem with the dealer indulging you. If the IWTSTH person complained to the floor, I'd hope for the floor to give a tutorial on IWTSTH, though that would be a pleasant surprise.

What's not fine is speed-mucking to avoid SOSA. I would have a problem with the dealer indulging someone who did this, because a good dealer would protect your hand so that anyone could ask to see.

RR · #7 01-30-2007, 08:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If a player clearly asks me as a dealer to show a hand (assuming the rules provide for showing this hand) and I hear him while you still have the cards in your hand YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR CARDS IRRETRIEVABLE UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING WHICH WILL GET YOU KICKED OUT OF THE ROOM.

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Don't be so certain of that. I remember once someone asked to see the one seat's hand. THe muck was protected. He grabbed my thumb and bent it backwards until my hand came off the muck. Before I could call the floor over to tell him about this clwon twisting my thumb he was yelling about me pulling his cards out of the muck after he pulled my hand off the muck. He was premitted to continue playing. Granted his cards weren't irretrievable, but the rules there did not allow pulling them out of the muck for IWTSTH, but given how they went there I was more than happy to show this guy's hand.

psandman · #8 01-30-2007, 09:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If a player clearly asks me as a dealer to show a hand (assuming the rules provide for showing this hand) and I hear him while you still have the cards in your hand YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO MAKE YOUR CARDS IRRETRIEVABLE UNLESS YOU DO SOMETHING WHICH WILL GET YOU KICKED OUT OF THE ROOM.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so certain of that. I remember once someone asked to see the one seat's hand. THe muck was protected. He grabbed my thumb and bent it backwards until my hand came off the muck. Before I could call the floor over to tell him about this clwon twisting my thumb he was yelling about me pulling his cards out of the muck after he pulled my hand off the muck. He was premitted to continue playing. Granted his cards weren't irretrievable, but the rules there did not allow pulling them out of the muck for IWTSTH, but given how they went there I was more than happy to show this guy's hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fortunately where work I am confident that if you grab my thumb and twist your done playing.

Sevenfold · #9 01-30-2007, 09:48 PM

I really really hate this as well. This is my pet peeve.

After losing a big hand, some idiot who didn't invest a penny wants to see my hand out of curiosity.

I now ask him several questions.

"I just lost a lot of money. Why in the heck are you asking to see my cards?"

"What do you think I had anyway? Can you read cards? What is the only possible hand I could have to play the hand that way?"

"If I show you the cards, will the information help you beat me? How are you going to do that? Come on, what do you think I had? You must have an idea since you're so curious."

Then, if I haven't mucked them, which more often then not I'm able to do, I float the cards one at a time over the table (this works much better in a 7 card game like razz or stud) at the player who by now usually has no interest in the hand any more.

If someone says something to me, I say, "I just lost $XXXX! Losing the hand isn't bad enough now this clown wants to see my cards and doesn't even know why!"

I've never been asked twice by the same player.

Richard Tanner · #10 01-30-2007, 10:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I really really hate this as well. This is my pet peeve.

After losing a big hand, some idiot who didn't invest a penny wants to see my hand out of curiosity.

I now ask him several questions.

"I just lost a lot of money. Why in the heck are you asking to see my cards?"

"What do you think I had anyway? Can you read cards? What is the only possible hand I could have to play the hand that way?"

"If I show you the cards, will the information help you beat me? How are you going to do that? Come on, what do you think I had? You must have an idea since you're so curious."

Then, if I haven't mucked them, which more often then not I'm able to do, I float the cards one at a time over the table (this works much better in a 7 card game like razz or stud) at the player who by now usually has no interest in the hand any more.

If someone says something to me, I say, "I just lost $XXXX! Losing the hand isn't bad enough now this clown wants to see my cards and doesn't even know why!"

I've never been asked twice by the same player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or you could not be a dick, just lie to him, and keep this loser happy and in the game. Piss him off and he's likely to stack off and leave, one and done.

Cody