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  #1  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:07 AM
maca9 maca9 is offline
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Default 25NL AA - Comments please

Hi

I know some may be critical of the min raise pre flop....other than that is this hand ok?


Should have i been happy to get all in on the flop with AA when he effectively pushed?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

BB ($46.65)
UTG ($36.70)
UTG+1 ($50.85)
MP1 ($7.75)
MP2 ($5.75)
CO ($5.05)
Button ($24.65)
Hero ($14.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $1.

Flop: ($4.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to $10.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12.65</font>, Button calls $2.40.

Turn: ($29.55) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: ($29.55) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: $29.55
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:40 AM
JFM JFM is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

This is a perfect example how not to play AA. If you want to be sneaky, just call the btn. This is a dangerous flop for you and your weak lead just invites a reraise. As played,Hoped he had KQ or or a SD/FD.
If you are ready to commit your stack then just push to protect your hand against the draws and mayby get a call from a K or J depending on villan.
Otherwise bet close to pot and fold if he puts you AI.
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:42 AM
maca9 maca9 is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

Why is the flop so dangerous?

Do you mean I should have lead the flop with a bigger bet?
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2007, 08:46 AM
Kos13 Kos13 is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

Reload. PF is gross. Flop lead is way too small. As played, get it in...you didn't even have 60 bets at the start of the hand, it's a 3bet pot, and you have AA, so this is a no-brainer.
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2007, 09:07 AM
JFM JFM is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

Since the btn was the first to raise in the pot he donīt need much of a hand. QTs, T9s KJ, AT most pairs and of course big hands AQ, KK, QQ JJ that he decids to take a flop with position. Your bet on the flop screams weknes and gives him the posibillity to both call with FD/SD (haveing the odds to so) and raise like i would have done. You need to protect your hand and cut down on the pot odds and the implied odds. If you are preperd to commit your stack, when i think you should push since the same hands that you beat will call you almost always anyway and hands like T9 dosenīt get the odds to call you, or makes an incorrect call. If the btn is decent though you only beat KQ and are pretty even aganst a combo-draw
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2007, 09:20 AM
Specialwon Specialwon is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

Ask yourself, what does that minraise preflop actually achieve, aside from getting one extra measly dollar in the pot?

Basically it is almost never right to slowplay unless you can justify the move. Because:

a) by minraising you tip your opponent off that you have a big hand, but without protecting yourself - you have just given a set miner a perfect opportunity to stack you here. You won't get any action post flop unless they have a hand that beats you.

I love it when I get minraised like this because I call with any pair knowing that you almost certainly are ready to stack off if I hit my set, I fold just about everything else and thank you for the cheap warning. I fold flop if I don't hit.

So, if you got stacked by JJ or 55, it serves you right. Next time raise 3-4 times the previous bet.

b) the weak flop bet, as others have said, any draw can just call cheaply here and suck out on you. Hands that raise probably have you beat except maybe KQ or AK if you are incredibly lucky. Small pairs that didn't catch will mostly fold even to your weedy bet.

As played, obviously push but you made this pretty hard for yourself.
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:05 AM
BigDan9 BigDan9 is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

I appreciate that you kind of knew you were going to get some $hit for the PF raise, but that's precisely what landed you with a more difficult decision on the flop (that and the small bet on the flop).

It's really important (90% of the time) to get the chips in PF when you're sitting on AA &amp; KK and ESPECIALLY when you're oop. And that doesn't mean a min re-raise, it means re-raising properly (probably to around $4 in this case, I would say). Others have explained why the first is bad, the second is good.

Playing oop is always harder and it's really not a disaster if, sitting in the blinds on a big hand like AA or KK, you put in a big raise (against several limpers) or a big re-raise and take down the pot PF. It's much, much better than getting stacked because you can't get away from your hand against a set or TTP or whatever. And if somebody does call a big re-raise with a crappy pocket pair or SCs and hit a set or a big draw, at least you gave them poor odds to try and do that, hopefully making it a -EV play for them.

Obviously, being tricksy is important once in a while (eg flat calling pf in this situation) but, particularly at small stakes online, I just don't think many players that observant/good enough to make that a particularly good strategy.

I would have made something close to a PSB on the flop (probably $3.75) then reluctantly shoved in response to a re-raise and then wished I'd raised much more pf when he shows you A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2007, 10:56 AM
AlexB182 AlexB182 is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

PF and flop is pretty digusting, get it in now and blame yourself in case KJ was able to see a far too cheap flop.
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  #9  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:20 AM
Tater10 Tater10 is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

[advice from novice NL player, wanting to play devil's advocate]

I'll say this isn't that gross. Effective stack size is $12.25, the pot $4.25. There shouldn't be any hands PF that have odds to play.

If you knew he is some maniac, and shove on any flop, this is the best way to play it.

Put another way: If you knew the SB had AA, what hands could you play profitably from the button, while creating a $4 pot with $12 effective stacks?

That said, obviously the best way to make money with AA is shoving it all in and being called. Its the calling part that makes AA tricky.
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  #10  
Old 11-25-2007, 11:24 AM
mmctrab mmctrab is offline
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Default Re: AA - Comments please

Reraise to 4 preflop. Pot the flop and go from there. The hand may wind up playing very differently if you play it that way. And, if you get reraised on the flop your decision would be easier.
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