yay me managed to turn pkt kings into a bluff

pig · #1 11-21-2007, 07:12 AM

Hows my line here?
Stage #988873356 Tourney ID 1920991 Holdem Multi Normal Tournament No Limit $60 - 2007-11-21 04:39:46 (ET)
Table: 3 (Real Money) Seat #3 is the dealer
Seat 1 - MP+1 ($2470 in chips)
Seat 2 - HERO ($2125 in chips)
Seat 3 - BUTTON ($2340 in chips)
Seat 4 - SB ($2810 in chips)
Seat 5 - BB ($1345 in chips)
Seat 7 - UTG ($1955 in chips)
Seat 8 - UTG+1 ($1835 in chips)
Seat 9 - MP ($1945 in chips)
SB - Posts small blind $30
BB - Posts big blind $60
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to HERO [K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]]
UTG - Raises $180 to $180
UTG+1 - Folds
MP - Folds
MP+1 - Calls $180
HERO - Raises $720 to $720
BUTTON - Folds
SB - Folds
BB - Folds
UTG - Folds
MP+1 - Calls $540
*** FLOP *** [5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
MP+1 - Checks
HERO -?Figured i was pot commited so i pushed and hated it

PBFan · #2 11-21-2007, 07:15 AM

if you push that you're horrible imo

pig · #3 11-21-2007, 07:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if you push that you're horrible imo

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks it felt wrong at the time so we check fold then?

pig · #4 11-21-2007, 07:35 AM

Not going to defend my play at all, i believe i played it badly but my table image was pretty tight and fwiw the villain in the hand had shown he was capable of calling a raise and folding to a bet previously.

Tackleberry · #5 11-21-2007, 08:51 AM

There´s not much you can do here.

You reraised an early-position-raiser preflop and Villain called you. That probably means that he has a PP (like 99-QQ). If he had AA/AK he certainly would have reraised you for isolation. So maybe he has AQs, but unless Villain is a complete donk there are not much more unpaired hands that I could imagine.

Said this you are either way ahead (against a smaller PP) or way behind (against AQ). Check-fold is definitely too weak here. The pot has 1,710, your remaining stack is 1,405. Imho you´re committed anyway and destined to lose your stack is Villain has an A. On the other hand you don´t want to lose Villain when he holds something like QQ for example. So I made a "normal" contibet of about 700 and called a push.

By the way - you had UTG in a nice squeeze position, so the only way to prevent this situation would have been to reraise less pf, say making it 450. UTG would have been a hard decision and if he folded and Villain had called, you would have had a manageable pot with position.

While writing this I even come to the conclusion that the push is just not that bad (what was the buy-in?) as this massive bet could lead Villain with QQ to the conclusion that you have no Ace ... in the lowest stakes this might not function but in the middle/higher stakes it could even be a valid line. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Summarized - a check-fold is out of discussion and if you immediately push or bet-call the flop depends on your reads on your opponent.

Rocco · #6 11-21-2007, 10:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
if you push that you're horrible imo

[/ QUOTE ]

Check-folding is horrible IMO...

pig · #7 11-21-2007, 11:04 AM

Thanks for your considered reply tackleberry.
The buy in was $20 fo/ about 100 runners
At the time with the way it played out i honestly didnt see what else i could do.
Cheers

wylies · #8 11-21-2007, 11:48 AM

You have position on him correct? Why not just check behind him on the flop looking to get it in on the turn?

Villian is either way ahead and calling your flop bet or drawing to 2 outs with a smaller pp. The only way IMO you can get value from a worse hand is to check behind and see what he does on the turn. He could bet the turn with all hands he'd call the flop with along with lower pp's hoping to bluff you off of KK or QQ which he'd have to think is in your range at this point.

brad2002tj · #9 11-21-2007, 12:37 PM

Standerd.

levAA · #10 11-21-2007, 01:29 PM

You made two errors in this hand:

1.) not shoving preflop - you raised, got reraised - now you should push with KK - this is standard

2.) not being able to lay down KK when an ace flops. You raise get reraised, an ace flops and villain checks. I think he has hit that flop in more than 90%. By not pushing preflop you have an awful potsize to play now. I think at best you will be up against QQ or JJ. Pushing is wrong here imo. The problem is with any bet you commit too much of your stack. I'd either check behind and fold on the turn or make a c-bet and fold to a push. Both lines suck. But the mistake was preflop imo.