Shaniac + Russo Niagara Hand

[Suited76]

I've read this thread:

Original Thread

I really enjoyed it but it turned into a theoretical argument that most would agree went on for too long (although I enjoyed most of the argument too). Discussion of the actual hand faded.

Here are the quotes concerning the action:

[ QUOTE ]
25-50 blinds
effective stacks all 20k

cdbr3799 raises UTG+1 with 4h7h to 150
UTG+2 calls
UTG+3 calls
Cutoff calls (shaniac)
SB calls (vanessa rousso)

flop 8s 6s 5d

SB checks
CDBR3799 bets 400
UTG+2 folds
UTG+3 calls 400
Cutoff (shaniac) raises to 1800
SB (vanessa) raises to 4200


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
cdbr folds.

turn is an offsuit deuce or something, and vanessa rousso check calls 7k leaving 9k behind.

the river is a offuist 9 (final board 86529), and vanessa checks. shaniac instashoves for 9k and vanessa says "looks like you missed your flushdraw" and calls.

shaniac shows 74 for 9-high straight (same hand as cdbr pre) and vanessa shows 85o for two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Never saw Shaniac's last action on the flop, but I'm assuming he called which led to Russo's spot on read.

I fully understand that Shane is 100x the player I am, but does anyone have any thoughts on his line? I know that Russo is regarded as terrible, but is it generally expected that she's this bad?

What % of players in a 10K tournament would you expect to call this river shove with anything that's not winning/splitting?

Shane, if you happen to see this....was there something specific you'd seen from her that gave you this read? Did you have the 7 of spades, assuming you were splitting at worst?

Thanks all. Very informative discussion about the hand so far.

[bigballz]

Oops reread the hand. Well she doesn't have a draw so c/c,ing to let her bluff is dumb, and the river just gave us the nuts so.....what's the question? Ex shove

[registrar]

Seems an easy shove to me. Of all the hands that justify her action, only one beats us. There's plenty of other hands left that will call with varying degrees of frequency.

I'm guessing as well that of the winnings that she has, a significant amount has come from snapping off bluffs. Because she's a chick and all.

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
Seems an easy shove to me. Of all the hands that justify her action, only one beats us. There's plenty of other hands left that will call with varying degrees of frequency.

I'm guessing as well that of the winnings that she has, a significant amount has come from snapping off bluffs. Because she's a chick and all.

[/ QUOTE ]

If she has 7Ts, so be it but that's like an insignificant portion of her range also she calls more than that which clearly makes this an obvious shove.

[Suited76]

That's what I'm wondering. I would assume a half decent player wouldn't be calling here with 2 pair and often folding a set.

I'm sure I don't know Shane's bluffing frequency on this river in this spot (is it that high this early in?). It just makes me curious as to how bad some of these 10k players are. Better than me of course, but that isn't saying much.

[curtains]

Yea but how about throwing 150 chips in the gutter instead of playing the hand UTG to begin with!!! LOLOLLOOLOLOLOL

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
Yea but how about throwing 150 chips in the gutter instead of playing the hand UTG to begin with!!! LOLOLLOOLOLOLOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even joking here, Vanessa should've folded her BB.

I mean seriously, this is the perfect case for mucking your option (even though she actually called).

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea but how about throwing 150 chips in the gutter instead of playing the hand UTG to begin with!!! LOLOLLOOLOLOLOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even joking here, Vanessa should've folded her BB.

I mean seriously, this is the perfect case for mucking your option (even though she actually called).

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot was raised, she didn't have any option!!!

[WarDekar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yea but how about throwing 150 chips in the gutter instead of playing the hand UTG to begin with!!! LOLOLLOOLOLOLOL

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not even joking here, Vanessa should've folded her BB.

I mean seriously, this is the perfect case for mucking your option (even though she actually called).

[/ QUOTE ]

Pot was raised, she didn't have any option!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I know that's why I said "even though she actually called" - as-in, she didn't have an option, she had to call. But of course she was SB and not BB, so she would've had to call anyway.

Regardless, her butchering of flopped 2 pair is still a good example of why some players SHOULD be mucking their option.

[Nate.]

All--

Anyone know how Shane reacted at the table after the "flush draw" comment and call? I always find it interesting to see how class acts react when they win and people say stuff like that. I'm sure Shane reacted in the most genteel, sensible possible way; I'd just like to know exactly what that was.

--Nate