$11: AKs against Big Stack, TPTK on flop, he pushes

[cakewalk]

at the $11's, without a read (i suggest you get one, they're v.nice) i dont like folding here.


but something sits wrong with me risking the entire stack to earn 650.

edit: (i should write what i'm thinking) should we take the risk here when we're probably going to be able to outplay the entire table ten times over with our tasty stack ?

[notfreemoney]

I am very uncomfortable putting my whole stack in this pot when i can wait and push and pick up blinds later. There are just too many draws out there that beat us or we call and hope for a split isnt making me happy either.

[bighomeytim]

[ QUOTE ]


If you do choose to flat call, you can't fold when you hit top pair top kicker can you?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what I was thinking this whole time.

[tewall]

Pushing pre-flop would be fine, and calling the push is fine too.

Pushing pre-flop is almost certainly mathematically unexploitable. I did an ICM calculation assuming Villain would push with best 10% and call your push with half of those. To simplify things I assumed your all-in wouldn't be called by anyone else. This results in you equity rising from 0.2579 to 0.3327. It's difficult to imagine a realistic scnenario where the push here wouldn't be solidly +EV.

On the call on the flop, the range hummusx suggested seemed reasonable to me, so I largely used it, but I left out flush draws and included KQ, both of which assumptions are conservative, and you're still a 2 to 1 favorite, making the call very easy.

[DevinLake]

[ QUOTE ]
I initally put in my first post 'there's no point calling preflop if your folding that flop.' I'm not too sure now. Does villain do this with KJ,77-JJ, flush draw etc here enough for hero to call this? And as for your comment about it being like 200/400 blind levels, its not the same as a bigstack has already shown decent interest in the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

Jay, reread my post. I said the reward was the equivalent of the 200/400 blind level. I said you have access the risk based on your read.

[EscapePlan9]

I generally have some type of reads but here's the problems with Doyle's Room (I'm only there for the 100% tourney rake returned bonus - 35% to $135):

The hand histories are atrocious. When you try to read what happened in the hands, it only shows the winners hand, and as you are reading it, the hand history is constantly updating and automatically scrolling down as new information is written, so you have to keep scrolling up. Not to mention that any time there's action at any other table, it takes the focus away. And that the hand histories are in pure raw text format. Ugly ugly ugly.

Also, Doyle's Room isn't PT compatible or PAHUD compatible, so I don't have those tools either.

Finally, 50/100 is only L3 on Doyle's room (20/40, 30/60, 50/100).

FWIW, I called after thinking for a couple seconds. I hit my TPTK and there's very few hands I'm behind.

[Jay Riall]

Sorry devin, my bad. Yes, obviously picking up the 650 in the middle is very nice. However we do not NEED this pot, we are still in an extremely good position to make the money if we fold this. Having 4650 does not significantly increase our equity over having 4000. If your pushing AK here I assume your pushing TT+ also?

[The Yugoslavian]

Devin is all over this thread....some ppl need to think about his posts more carefully, [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img].

OP,
If your opponent isn't Lorinda then you're playing vs. a huge donk after that flop allin. I'd just call it if I flat called the flop.

I think pushing pre is clearly best if you don't know how to play the flop in context. I doubt folding here without a good read would be most profitable.

Yugoslav

[Jay Riall]

Those saying push preflop, what do you do if he makes a standard raise to 300? Raise to 1000 and fold to a push? Call a push? Just flatcall the first raise?

[EscapePlan9]

I don't think pushing would be BAD here, but I also don't think it is "clearly the best play".

I like to play careful against the biggest stack when I'm 2nd biggest stack. There's very few hands I would be pushing over his raise, lacking any reads.