Harrah's to build sports arena behind Ballys - Page 4

StevieG · #31 08-27-2007, 11:31 PM

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5k fans is pretty good for that level. The capacity for Orleans arena is 7,800.

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That is pretty good for the ECHL.

However the 51s (minor league baseball) also draw an average of around 5200, not as good for the Pacific Coast League. The 51s rank 12th out of the 16 teams, and under the league average of about 6600 per game.

Things are even worse if you move to Arena Football. The Las Vegas Gladiators drew an average 5400, last in the league and well behind the average of 12,400.

The major leagues also want the TV audience, and Las Vegas ranks 43rd among US TV markets. (although it was 51st back in 2004, when Goodman tried to lure the Expos to town).

Combine that with the issues already mentioned, and a sports team is not a sure thing to come to Vegas or succeed there.

soah · #32 08-27-2007, 11:35 PM

you're sort of making my case for me

most sporting events take place in areas which normally have minimal traffic at around the times that people will be going there for the event, and the traffic is still horrible

traffic along the strip at 7 PM is already oversaturated

augie_ · #33 08-27-2007, 11:51 PM

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I reiterate though that perhaps I don't understand the dynamic of crappy LV traffic compared to other cities.

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there is one difference between vegas and other cities. in other cities, the traffic often moves. when i tried to drive into the strip on one evening i regretted not bringing a picnic basket.

aoFrantic · #34 08-28-2007, 12:47 AM

With huge recent betting scandals in the NBA and NHL, I doubt they could get any team within 10-20 years unless they offered HUGE sums of money, like 4-5x more then another location such as Ohio or Kansas City.

StevieG · #35 08-28-2007, 10:51 AM

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With huge recent betting scandals in the NBA and NHL, I doubt they could get any team within 10-20 years unless they offered HUGE sums of money, like 4-5x more then another location such as Ohio or Kansas City.

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We really need to get beyond this.

aoFrantic, I know you're just telling it like it is and not saying this necessarily makes sense, but this always pisses me off.

England has arguably the finest soccer league in the world, and there is a sportsbook like Paddy Power outside practically every other tube stop.

Legal sportsbooks operated by licensed businesses want to avoid this kind of scandal as much as the leagues themselves.

Scorcho · #36 08-28-2007, 01:36 PM

I look forward to watching all sorts of events at Harrah's new arena, all while paying 50% "convenience fees" on all tickets.

MicroBob · #37 08-28-2007, 02:07 PM

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[ QUOTE ]

5k fans is pretty good for that level. The capacity for Orleans arena is 7,800.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is pretty good for the ECHL.

However the 51s (minor league baseball) also draw an average of around 5200, not as good for the Pacific Coast League. The 51s rank 12th out of the 16 teams, and under the league average of about 6600 per game.

Things are even worse if you move to Arena Football. The Las Vegas Gladiators drew an average 5400, last in the league and well behind the average of 12,400.

The major leagues also want the TV audience, and Las Vegas ranks 43rd among US TV markets. (although it was 51st back in 2004, when Goodman tried to lure the Expos to town).

Combine that with the issues already mentioned, and a sports team is not a sure thing to come to Vegas or succeed there.

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I don't think that measuring the attendance of the LV 51's is really worth looking at as far as the potential success of any big-league sport in LV including MLB.

The LV 51's stadium just isn't that hot. Facility is borderline lousy-ish from what I've heard and it's not the best of locations either. Weather isn't exactly too inviting either for much of the season.
If LV were to go all-out for a major-league baseball team I'm assuming a dazzling stadium in a better location with a retractable roof would need to be part of the equation.

And none of that relates too terribly much to the potential success of an NBA or NHL team.

I also caution against reading too much into some of those attendance figures in minor-league baseball as some of them are inflated beyond all recognition.
LV's may very well be also.

They can do this by doing such things as selling some corporation a billboard or program-ad and then also throwing in 35 season-tickets into the contract that they're almost never going to use or something weird.

Memphis is among the leaders in the Pacific Coast League in attendance each year and from their figures one would think that practically every game there is a sell-out. It is simply not true.
They announce a crowd of 8,000 when there are clearly 2,000 people or fewer in the stands.
This is not an exaggeration at all and it's a reasonably common thing in minor-league baseball.

I went to a game with fewer than 1,000 people in the stands by my guess and they announced 7,800. I was having a casual chat with the president of the team at the time and my jaw dropped. He said something like, "well, that's how it works these days" which is true. It's hardly isolated to just the Memphis team.

LV's attendance probably isn't that great either. But they might not be as far behind some of the other teams as you might think.

My hunch is that Sacramento and Round Rock's numbers are perhaps a bit more legit.
Heard good things about Albuquerque's fan-base these days too.

Sacramento right now is averaging 9994 fans per game. I can almost guarantee you that they will definitely get to a 10k average for the year.
Whatever number they need on their last game of the year, they will announce that number or higher.

Oh, but I digress yet again.

Short version is to not put too much stock in minor-league baseball attendance figures. Their accuracy is iffy, and it really doesn't tell you THAT much about a city's potential for supporting a major-league team.

MicroBob · #38 08-28-2007, 02:09 PM

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With huge recent betting scandals in the NBA and NHL, I doubt they could get any team within 10-20 years unless they offered HUGE sums of money, like 4-5x more then another location such as Ohio or Kansas City.

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Ohio already has an NBA team and an NHL team.

The NBA team is in Cleveland which is in one corner of the state. But to my knowledge there really isn't very much interest at all in the Cincinnati area to land an NBA team.

The NHL team in Columbus is pretty centrally located of course. Cleveland has a first-class arena that could host an NHL team and maybe they even have the fan-base to support it. But it doesn't seem very likely to me.

Cactus Jack · #39 08-28-2007, 04:58 PM

Here's a little known truth:

Very few in LV cares whether we get an NBA team or not. Oscar does. Maybe some sportswriter. But not the average citizen. He couldn't care less.

Given a choice between an NBA team and not booking NBA games, I guarantee you the casinos will choose their books.

Despite that, most of the pro bettors in this town are very down on the sportsbooks because they won't take their action at the levels they need to make a living. The thought that having a team would make it worse is intolerable.

Sooner or later, somebody needs to point out that the NBA is minor league sports now. (If you don't believe it, look at the TV numbers.)

habsfanca11 · #40 08-28-2007, 05:43 PM

For all you hockey fans ...

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said the arena announcement "positively impacts the prospects of Las Vegas attracting a major-league franchise" but said there was "nothing new to report" regarding league expansion or the NHL's intentions about a team in Las Vegas.

"That is a matter our Board of Governors would have to consider at an appropriate time," he said in a statement.

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