Cap the turn with AA ?

[cgrohman]

This hand is easier with reads. IF UTG is spewy there is definite merit in raising, but without reads, his sudden turn donk into a large field that has capped pre-flop and flop is scary (or some weird donk blocking bet). If MP+1 truly has KK or QQ, he very well may raise for you. Then if UTG 3-bets, you know you are toast and you can escape for one bet instead of 2.

[kabz]

I believe that u r already beat. Most probably it is the UTG who has the set, since he limped in the first place ( unless he was slowplaying KK (not recommended, better with AA sometimes) so i would put him on 99 or to a lesser degree 66.

As for MP+1 he should have KK/QQ so as to 3 bet an early postion raiser and a cold caller , not excluding AKo or AKs.

MP is a total mystery maybe he got trapped between the 2 and refused to let his hand. so maybe he could have the open ended staight on the flop with 78s or 78o. after flop action we have 37 Sb/18 Bb.

On the turn, UTG leading shows in my opinion that he has the set and from the flop action considers that someone will raise him ,not willing for the hand to be checked around with 2 clubs on the board. MY opinion is to try to see the river as cheaply as possible since the pot has gotten this big. raising is out of the question. so if u call on the turn, MP+1 will raise, UTG will reraise , u fold.if UTG just calls, u can call since the MP hasnt shown any agression.

[ssmallz]

I'd prolly just call the flop 3 bet and c/r the turn. Seems like a great time to do it.

As for your turn action. Just get to showdown, UTG coud have a set and he could have a flush draw and he could have TT and he could have 2 pair. Bottom line get to showdown.

[kabz]

2 pairs not possible unless he started with 92,62, 96 .. which i find hard to believe to call 4 bets pre flop and 5 bets on the flop unless he is moron.
TT with all the raising i find it difficult for him to lead on the turn and not suspecting he is already against a bigger pair.

Flush draw, it is better for him to see the river as cheaply as possible so better to check the turn not lead

i cant see anything possible except for a set or maybe an overpair .
it is difficult to see the showdown if it is going to cost another fortune

[rafiki]

Ya that was pretty much my thought process. I felt *mildy* weak, and decided to call. At the time I felt passive and figured I'd hear about it in here, but I couldn't find a way to raise

I call, MP calls, MP+1 raises (I laugh because I'm pretty sure I have this fool beat), and now...

UTG calls ???

At this point I'm stuck between raise and call. I'm starting to wonder if UTG has 2 pair, and he is reading MP+1 for a set. If that's the case, even though I'm sure I'm ahead of MP+1, I'm very sure I'm behind UTG. Only problem is I can't figure out a 2 pair combo other then something lame like 23s, or 69s. All the fish are misreading each other, and I'm stuck playing what I feel might be the best hand pretty passively. All call.

River:

River is a non flush 8. MP+1 already has chips lined up to bet. UTG checks. I'll spare asking the advice on this portion, because I think there won't be much of a concensus. I check, MP+1 bets, UTG calls.

you ?

I have a good feeling I know which posters will recommend raise. I'd just like to get into a discussion about that specifically, because this is one of those situations where I wonder if a passive player may be under-representing his hand, and is willing to take a passive line to see a showdown. If I'm wrong about that, I'm missing tons of value on the river. Easy cr ? Easy call ?

[noles321]

You went to the flop against 4 players you are a coinflip to win the hand. When you are beat you are beat and in this case you are drawing to two cards. Raising is out of the question. At 10/20 in a 4 way capped flop at least two people have middle pairs looking for a set. Fold your hand and move on.

[rafiki]

[ QUOTE ]
You went to the flop against 4 players you are a coinflip to win the hand. When you are beat you are beat and in this case you are drawing to two cards. Raising is out of the question. At 10/20 in a 4 way capped flop at least two people have middle pairs looking for a set. Fold your hand and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

where are you proposing the fold ?

[kabz]

according to my scenario since UTG just called , go ahead and raise

[jfk]

[ QUOTE ]
River:

River is a non flush 8. MP+1 already has chips lined up to bet. UTG checks. I'll spare asking the advice on this portion, because I think there won't be much of a concensus. I check, MP+1 bets, UTG calls.

you ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Once you're at the river in a pot this big you have to call for one bet.

A raise doesn't make a great deal of sense because you can't put anyone on a hand. UTG could have a set and decided to get extraordinarily timid. If MP +1 has the set (of nines) he'll punish you. It isn't clear how often you win here but it figures to be under 50%. A call seems best.

[noles321]

I truly consider a fold on the turn. JMO Unless, I really believe these guys are complete idiots I don't think there are many hands that I am going to beat. What was the end result of the hand?