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#1
11-02-2007, 10:10 AM
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A post.... but also a sort of survey of thought processes.
I want to know how YOU (the reader) thinks. I am not interested in what might be "standard" or anything. I want to learn the thought process (if there is any true thought given at all) of each individual who is reading this and playing this game. Consider this post to be something of a survey.
One note: Because the players in this hand have no history with each other, this is the perfect example to use because there is no chance to second-guess oneself based upon what anyone "knows" might be the other's reaction. On to the post: The game is 10/25 NL at foxwoods. You are in mid-position with Ac 7c, and open for $100 (standard open in the game). Button calls, and I call from the BB. Flop is 9c Tc Jd. I check, you bet $200, button calls, and I raise to $1,200. Button folds. You ask me how much I have behind, and I tell you $3,900 beyond the $1,200 (for a total of $5,100). You have me covered. What's your action? TK 
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#2
11-02-2007, 10:46 AM
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Re: A post.... but also a sort of survey of thought processes.
check the flop to begin with imo, as played probably get all in, ur equity here is never awful and if he ever has a worse draw than u, its a goood situation. Im not excitied about it but im all in
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#3
11-02-2007, 11:38 AM
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one edit to the original post.... and a quick observation....
In the original post, I said the button folded after I raised to $1,200.... my apologies -- the button folded to your $200 bet after the flop. It was at that point that I raised to $1,200.
So far, there have been only 3 responses; of those, just one has even bothered to mention what his action would be. That is a good start, but I also am very interested in learning what you might be thinking about your action with respect to whether you might be ahead or behind, what are your chances of actually winning the hand (if you don't fold, which always is an option) versus the amount of money you have in the pot, and now might need to commit if you are going to call or raise. Quite frankly, I am curious as to whether such things even enter your head.... or are you simpy saying to yourself -- "I have a nut flush draw, and now it's just a matter of getting to the river no matter what." To me, these are important questions. TK
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#5
11-02-2007, 01:34 PM
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Re: A post.... but also a sort of survey of thought processes.
[ QUOTE ]
check the flop to begin with imo, as played probably get all in, ur equity here is never awful and if he ever has a worse draw than u, its a goood situation. Im not excitied about it but im all in [/ QUOTE ] what hand would he have where he would have a worse draw than you and not be ahead right now? It doesn't look like you have a whole lot of FE here either. If I shoved here it would be because I got the impression the guy might fold a set or a non-nut straight. With no reads I would just let it go.
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#6
11-02-2007, 01:35 PM
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Re: one edit to the original post.... and a quick observation....
anyone want to take odds that thinkards had KQ in this hand?
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#7
11-02-2007, 01:51 PM
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Re: A post.... but also a sort of survey of thought processes.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] check the flop to begin with imo, as played probably get all in, ur equity here is never awful and if he ever has a worse draw than u, its a goood situation. Im not excitied about it but im all in [/ QUOTE ] what hand would he have where he would have a worse draw than you and not be ahead right now? It doesn't look like you have a whole lot of FE here either. If I shoved here it would be because I got the impression the guy might fold a set or a non-nut straight. With no reads I would just let it go. [/ QUOTE ] ya i didnt think through the hand long enough your right not really any worse draws get in unless hes really bad and had q x or 8 x or something, or maybe a lower flush draw. However its still true imo that getting all in on this flop is never gunna be a huge mistake if it is one at all, and like u mentioned he might fold a set if hes a timid player or something like that, its a situation where it doesnt seem like F/e, but a little could or does exist. Either way the answer to this post is to check the flop.
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#8
11-02-2007, 03:06 PM
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Does the \"answer\" change if....
The discussion here is just beginning to get a little more interesting....
One person said that without a read on villain (in this case, I am the villain), the best course of action might simply be to fold. Personally, I agree with that assessment. However, for those who somehow feel that having a nut-draw makes it worth fighting for the pot, I have this query: Does your action change if I have $10,000 behind the $1,200 raise? $20,000 behind? $30,000 or more? In other words, what are the conditions that must exist in order for you to begin to believe that: 1. You might already be beaten, and/or; 2. Even if you are not beaten at this point, chasing the nut-draw is not worth it considering you have just $300 invested, and it might cost you a whole lot more to see the next card (or two cards if we don't get it all in before the river)? How must a hand play itself out, and what types of scenarios need to look likely, for you to say to yourself that it simply may not be worth trying to force a watermelon through a keyhole? Or, is the game of poker in the internet era about nothing more than trying to make YOUR best possible hand at any cost, and then seeing if you actually receive the pot once all the cards are out? Looking forward to further responses. TK
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#9
11-02-2007, 03:54 PM
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Re: Does the \"answer\" change if....
if i'm really rich, i push you all in after your raise.
but i figure i'm way behind; you probably has something like... KQ... JT... if i'm just me -- with my bankroll -- i fold...
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#10
11-02-2007, 04:07 PM
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Re: Does the \"answer\" change if....
[ QUOTE ]
The discussion here is just beginning to get a little more interesting.... One person said that without a read on villain (in this case, I am the villain), the best course of action might simply be to fold. Personally, I agree with that assessment. However, for those who somehow feel that having a nut-draw makes it worth fighting for the pot, I have this query: Does your action change if I have $10,000 behind the $1,200 raise? $20,000 behind? $30,000 or more? In other words, what are the conditions that must exist in order for you to begin to believe that: 1. You might already be beaten, and/or; 2. Even if you are not beaten at this point, chasing the nut-draw is not worth it considering you have just $300 invested, and it might cost you a whole lot more to see the next card (or two cards if we don't get it all in before the river)? How must a hand play itself out, and what types of scenarios need to look likely, for you to say to yourself that it simply may not be worth trying to force a watermelon through a keyhole? Or, is the game of poker in the internet era about nothing more than trying to make YOUR best possible hand at any cost, and then seeing if you actually receive the pot once all the cards are out? Looking forward to further responses. TK [/ QUOTE ] thinkards this is one of the most annoying string of posts i have ever seen. could you make it a little more obvious that you got bad beat? If I were mod I would ban you for this garbage.
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