Why no backgammon discussion?

[Oblivious]

I guess not as many of you all play as I'd expect. Looking over the first page I dont see any backgammon threads.

[delph]

Let's get some going then- are there any backgammon players in the Bay Area? I was thinking of going to my first tournament this saturday (in Berkeley). What should I expect/be prepared for? I'm a pretty solid player again my friends but would probably get destroyed by someone who really knows when to double and take/forfeit

[Oblivious]

Im in boulder, co. We have a club here that meets every week for a no rake $10+side bets tourney, but I havnt been able to go yet. Knowing when to double is something I want to get a handle on too. To get started, maybe i could pose a sort of grass roots question. Assuming neither player has an otherwise positional advantage, is it correct for a player with a 1 pip lead to double early? An analogy might be raising with a 2% edge in limit poker. Its obviously correct, eventhough you are reopening the betting for him and he at least has odds to call. Discuss.

[Velocity]

Oblivious,

Doubling when very slightly ahead is bad. Reverse implied odds and such. If he gets ahead you play for 4, if you stay ahead you play for 2.

Also, there isn't a lot of discussion on backgammon here because there are computer programs that have basically solved the game, and analyzing your strategy with such a program is a much better way to improve than having a discussion amongst players on this board.

Velocity

[Oblivious]

Very good point Velocity. I know of snowie, but I dont have any idea where to run simulations. What can i do to get better?

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess not as many of you all play as I'd expect. Looking over the first page I dont see any backgammon threads.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are better places to discuss backgammon because it is hard to post diagrams here. Nevertheless, if you search the archives properly, you will find that there are quite a few threads about backgammon.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Let's get some going then- are there any backgammon players in the Bay Area?

[/ QUOTE ]
There are quite a few strong players who live in the Bay Area. See the Backgammon By The Bay club.

[ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of going to my first tournament this saturday (in Berkeley). What should I expect/be prepared for?


[/ QUOTE ]
If you are used to playing on a computer, you might miss the automatic pip count. You might want to practice counting pips a few times, hiding the counts, and then revealing the counts to check. If you have never counted pips, it may be more arithmetic than you are used to doing, but it is worth a lot to know the count. Some people have elaborate methods, and some people have fast methods, but the important thing is that you have a method you will use when you need it.

Another thing to get used to is that you may be playing clockwise or counterclockwise. (When one player is playing one way, the opponent is playing the other.) Some players play online and get used to one direction, and have difficulty adjusting. You always roll on the right hand side of the board, though.

If you have only played informally, make sure you understand the Crawford rule for matches, and the Jacoby rule for money play.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm a pretty solid player again my friends but would probably get destroyed by someone who really knows when to double and take/forfeit

[/ QUOTE ]
It's common for people to overestimate the effect of the doubling cube. While you can make huge mistakes with the doubling cube, most players give up far more equity with checker plays, even in matches where the cube decisions are more complicated. This is because you have many more checker play decisions, and until you are an expert, it is easy to give up significant amounts of equity on positions that you think are not interesting.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming neither player has an otherwise positional advantage, is it correct for a player with a 1 pip lead to double early?

[/ QUOTE ]
In a racing position of 50 pips or more, a good rule of thumb is to double when you are ahead 10% - 2 pips, redouble at 10% - 1 pip, and take up to 10% - 2 pips. In shorter races, the take point moves up a bit. E.g., leading 60-64 double, 60-65 redouble, trailing 60-68 take.

Being on roll is worth about half of an average roll, 4 pips. It is still very wrong to double when you lead by one pip plus the roll in a long race.

The doubling cube is a weapon you can use to magnify your wins. If you double with a tiny advantage, you are magnifying far too many of your losses, too. You could have waited for a more significant advantage to double, in order to double almost all of your wins, but fewer of your losses.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]

Also, there isn't a lot of discussion on backgammon here because there are computer programs that have basically solved the game,


[/ QUOTE ]
No, they aren't close to solving the game. They play very well, at the level of the top human players or better, but they still make a lot of mistakes.

A well-known backgammon player keeps sending me backgammon positions he found interesting, along with the evaluations presented as The Answer. I believe his conclusions are wrong almost half of the time. Maybe the bot makes the right play 90% of the time, while a human plays correctly 80% of the time, but that may mean that when they disagree, the bot is only right 2/3 of the time. (Sometimes play C is correct.) When the decision is interesting, and the human has good reasons for disagreeing with the bot, the bot's reliability drops.

[ QUOTE ]

and analyzing your strategy with such a program is a much better way to improve than having a discussion amongst players on this board.


[/ QUOTE ]
Possibly right. Bots are great sparring partners and great for giving objective feedback. I think all of the top players train with bots. However, bots are not very good about explaining why a move is right, or how to think about a situation.

[Oblivious]

Heres an easy question:
What's the best site to play online? I took $2 free dollars from gammonmempire, but it has to say there since they no longer take us players. whats a good site for american players? low rake and soft competition are +++.

Also, I live in boulder and like to play cash games. Anyone want to play for no rake? Usually i play for $0.25 to $1 per point with bevers. My only condition is that we play at the huka bar. PM.